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Ramblers for trees?

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Ramblers for trees?

Post by pfm on 27th September 2010, 20:12

Hi all

I am in planning mode for next year and need some advice, please! There are 3 large gum trees at the front of our house yard approximately 5 metres apart. I want to plant a rambler/climber in each keeping to a pink colour scheme. Obviously the roses need to be shade tolerant. I am deciding between Rosa Multiflora Carnea, Kew Rambler, Tea Rambler and Souvenir de Madam Leonie Viennot. I have read that the first 2 are very shade tolerant but not sure about the last 2. Do you think they will go nicely together and work as tree climbers?

To the side of our house yard are two more large gums and I want to stick with whites. So, I am thinking Wedding day and Rosa Filipes Kiftsgate.

The trunks of all the trees are fairly short so I shouldn't have too much trouble getting them to start rambling their way through.

Thanks for your ideas! Fiona Smile

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Admin on 27th September 2010, 20:33

I have Souvenir de MME Leonie Veinnot growing up one side of a dead gum tree with gigantea growing up the other. Mermaid is a creamy white that will do well (maybe too well) up a tree but is a creamy yellow/white... repeat flowering and very healthy.

There are some nice Alister Clark ramblers in pink that would be good like Gladsome or Cherub (though it is the one we grow now is thought to be different to his original rose). Nancy Hayward or others like it (like Flying Colours... hot pink/reds) would be good. My Souv. de MME Leonie Viennot is on the south side of the tree so is pretty shaded but the tree is dead and so has more sun than yours would. Climbing Lorraine Lee would look nice too. My Lorraine Lee (bush form) grows well under a silver birch where it gets morning sun and late afternoon sun but is shaded around midday.

Wedding Day will cope with shade until it can stick its head out again... the branches will grow very long and thin as it tries to find a way out. I've not grown Kiftsgate. A Cherokee Rose will do well and probably overtake the tree and can sucker.

Another pink that might work well is Albertine. Margaret has said on HMF that the rose sold here as Tea Rambler is probably not the real deal.

I really like Kew Rambler as it is a soulieana hybrid (Rosa soulieana Crépin × Hiawatha). It is immense.

How would climbing Devoniensis go as a white tree climber?


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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by pfm on 28th September 2010, 20:03

Thanks, Simon. You have given me some good suggestions! I am thinking that it may pay for me to spend spring and summer taking note of how much sun that area does get. I think one of the trees should get some of the summer afternoon sun which would benefit Souvenir de MME Leonie Veinnot. The shadiest tree can have Rosa Multiflora carnea. You mentioned that kew is huge so this may not be the best spot for that one but I will have a look into the Alister Clarks.

I love Albertine but am saving that one for a back pergola when we do our house extensions!

Climbing Devoniensis is lovely but i thought that one was quite creamy/almost yellow in colour?

What about New Dawn or Awakening? I have read that they are quite shade tolerant but am wondering if they are better suited to arches or pillars?

You mentioned that Kiftsgate can sucker. Excuse my ignorance but what exactly does that mean and how would I control it (if indeed I need to)?

Thanks again!

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Admin on 28th September 2010, 20:18

No... I mentioned laevigata, the Cherokee Rose, can sucker... I haven't grown Kiftsgate.

There is basically two different forms of suckering. The first, and most familiar form, is when shoots are sent out under the ground to appear some distance away from the parent plant. These are easy to deal with if you only get a few. You can simply dig them up and gift them to a friend, discard them or if they come up in the lawn mow them.

The second type of suckering is not really a form of suckering but is when shoots come up from the roots, not the main trunk as in the above example. They usually don't come up as far from the parent plant but also don't generally appear until the parent plant is removed, damaged, or weakened in some way. The roots of many rose, like Dr Huey, are persistent and can send up shoots long after the rose has been dug out and discarded. I find this to be an annoying form of suckering but only because there are only a few reasons I dig a rose out. One is because it is failing to thrive, or I might gift it to a friend, or it is diseased with RMV. The last one is a real pain because if I dig an RMV infected rose out I can't put another rose in the same spot or near it unless I get all the roots out because the roots will remain alive, may send up shoots of infected plants of may graft with the roots of the new rose, underground, infecting it as well. PITB! Generally I don't mind suckering.. it's a good opportunity to share plants around Smile

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Guest on 28th September 2010, 22:55

It depends. If your plants don't have much competition (the gum trees will provide that!), suckerers may become a real nuisance - gallicas and spinosissimas and R bracteata especially. I'm repeating myself, but I would never again grow any spring-flowerer or any rugosa on its own roots.
Sorry, that was misleading; most spring-flowering ramblers don't sucker. However, if you let branches touch the ground, most can make new roots there as a means of spreading ("rooting down" or "layering themselves"). Unfortunately modern groundcovers derived from R wichurana, eg Snow Carpet & Pink Bells, can do this too.


Last edited by Margaret on 9th October 2010, 20:24; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Modification)

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Balinbear on 29th September 2010, 20:37

We have a Not Parkes Yellow growing about 8 metres up a tree that was covered in flowers yesterday but a thunderstorm took half of them away. Shocking plant to take a photo of cause its is pale against the sky and the light green foliage of the tree it is growing on (see flowers up near top of photo).

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Admin on 29th September 2010, 21:45

Has formed a natural arch Gary!! That's really nice.

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Balinbear on 30th September 2010, 08:01

If you look carefully you can see the old arch (just some reinforcing mesh) that formed the original arch attached to the posts. The rose clinbed over it and up the tree. When it is in flower (only once a yesr unfortunately) it is magnificent.

This year everything has flowered early and normally this rose wll be only just starting to flower.
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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by OzRose on 30th September 2010, 11:41

Hi pfm.
I have a love affair with Albertine too and have planted one at all the places I have lived in for the past 20 years.
I saw you had in mind to put one over your pergola ; just bear in mind it's thorns ! They are pearlers and one of the plants attractions but you will want to make sure there are no stray canes hanging down . Smile

I had New Dawn growing up a tree at my former garden and it too is very thorny . I don't think you would have too much trouble getting one up into your trees . It sends out these great long whippy canes ; when the new shoot first emerges from the trunk , they grow so far you can almost see it happening . [My plant also had the habit of sending out sneaky ones that used to snake along the ground or through the low shrubbery and bite your ankles when you walked past Laughing ]

Your garden sounds like it's going to be lovely.

cheers. Rosalie
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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Meryl on 2nd October 2010, 20:44

For pinks, I love both New Dawn and Awakening. As Rosalie warns, they have savage thorns but they both cope OK with quite a lot of shade and keep flowering... well, New Dawn keeps flowering, Awakening is not quite so floriferous. But be aware that they may not make it to the top of your gums. I had ND growing through a big old crabapple and it was the right size for that but the canes only grew to about 3-4 metres max. (New Dawn is still growing but the crabapple is no more.)

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Admin on 2nd October 2010, 22:48

The double whie banksia rose likes to eat trees like that Wink

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Meryl on 3rd October 2010, 09:54

On re-reading I realise that Rosalie's New Dawn is larger than the ones I've known. Another possibility if you don't mind once-flowering is Dr W Van Fleet, New Dawn's much bigger progenitor, which should surely get to the top of your gums.

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by pfm on 7th October 2010, 20:12

Thankyou everyone. You have given me lots to research! I think I am obsessed as I suspect you all are, too! The only problem will be finding places for all of these beautiful roses. I'm trying to stick with pinks, whites, pale purples and the odd red close to the house but I am finding that I really like some of the apricot and yellow roses (this is a surprise to me!) so down the track I will design a garden for those beauties. I am really looking forward to seeing more of your photo's as they appear this season.

A bush rose question - has anyone grown St Francis Xavier? I have a newly planted circular garden with a round of Heritage in the centre and St Francis Xavier around the front of that. Most of them are doing well but some seem to be struggling a bit. Do you kow if these are slow to get started?

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Ozrosarian on 21st November 2010, 09:35

Mermaid can grow 7-9 m when climbing around a tree. It's a real deal climber, no fuss about it. Just one more option ...
The reason I suggest Mermaid is because it's good for a tree climber to have some claws to stick onto branches firmly. When wind is strong, an average Noisette/Bourbon/Modern climber is scattered all round and will surely be damaged if young. For pergolas and wire support most climbing roses are fine, but in trees a "little beast" like Mermaid will hold still and grow comfortably because of its informal look — it will look more natural.
Ta.


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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Admin on 21st November 2010, 09:44

pfm wrote:A bush rose question - has anyone grown St Francis Xavier? I have a newly planted circular garden with a round of Heritage in the centre and St Francis Xavier around the front of that. Most of them are doing well but some seem to be struggling a bit. Do you kow if these are slow to get started?

I have a 'St. Francis Xavier' and as far as I know the only place selling it at the moment is Ross Roses. That's where mine came from and mine arrived virused. This is going to affect its vigour. You might be lucky and may have avoided getting a virused clone. Mine has taken a long time to settle in, however, and is only now starting to take off, virus-and-all. I keep it around with the intention of running it through my heat box in the future along with 'Francis Dubreuil'.

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Guest on 21st November 2010, 11:00

if you're happy with a pink tree-climber that only flowers once a year, look at May Queen. Apple Blossom is lovely cascading out of a tree too.

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Admin on 21st November 2010, 11:03

I'm hoping 'Gladsome' and 'Cherub' will look like this too... if I can get the Censored possums to stop eating the tips out.

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by shamous o'reily on 22nd November 2010, 13:44

Funny I noticed this thread just now. I just placed "Cupid" on order for next winter to climb up one of my 100 year old gums. I saw on the week-end in full flower, and looked really nice, and quite vigourous.

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Guest on 23rd November 2010, 09:37

If you saw it at Ruston's, it's Cupid; if at Thomas for Roses, it's "Katie Pianto's Rose" aka "Balmain Rambler". Katie's repeats a bit.

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by shamous o'reily on 23rd November 2010, 10:44

I didn't see "cupid" at Ruston's. I was there the other week, only spent 3 hours so didn't cover much ground....I did see it growing up and along a 4-5m high or so fence at TFR, with every square inch from top to bottom left to right covered, and thought it would go marvelous up one of my Gums if left to its own devices. I've just looked it up on HMF, and it does resemble the picture of "katie Pianto's rose" (is that your picture..??), but was sold to me as "cupid".....??

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by OzRose on 23rd November 2010, 11:06

Oh , for a simple DNA kit to test roses at home Laughing It would be nice to know that when you order something , that's what you actually get , not something that the nursery chooses to call by the name of the rose you actually want.

I'm currently watching a "Chrysler Imperial" flower for the first time for me and it's more a Peter Frankenfeld pink . Tantrum
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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Guest on 23rd November 2010, 11:54

Every nursery has cuckoos, not necessarily their own fault. When a major nursery or repository sends out wrong'uns, they get perpetuated.
I was at TFR last week, and their rose is definitely Katie Pianto's (and they've been told that). Good rose though. If you drive along Totness Rd, you'll see it on my fence. Yes, my photo at Ruston's.
By the way TFR's Mons. Tillier is ex Beales' nursery, and is Marie Nabonnand (well worth growing); their Marechal Niel is Duchesse d'Auerstadt; Marie Lambert and Marie Pavie are interchanged; their Mrs Dunlop-Best is wrong, as is their Daily Mail Scented. Unless they've changed them. If you want Mons. Tillier from TFR, you have to ask for Archduke Joseph.
And sometimes I find the label on something I grew from a cutting doesn't match what I wrote on the stem when I took the cutting... Poltergeists in the garden.


Last edited by Margaret on 23rd November 2010, 11:57; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Addition)

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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by shamous o'reily on 23rd November 2010, 12:29

My head is spinning.... Stunned

Do like Marie Nabonnand, I'm thinking about training it on the side of my tool shed to be....


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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by Balinbear on 23rd November 2010, 13:36

"And sometimes I find the label on something I grew from a cutting doesn't match what I wrote on the stem when I took the cutting... "

Yes definately Poltergeists. We have them at our place as well plus the damm idiot that does the garden (ie me).

After struggling with trying to get a particular rose growing from a cutting I was over the moon when I finally mananged to get one to stricke. It grew well but I found that when it flowered it was the rose next to it that had grown through the other and the cutting was from it not the one I intended.

Don't you just hate that!!!
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Re: Ramblers for trees?

Post by shamous o'reily on 23rd November 2010, 14:25

roflmao

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