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Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

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Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

Post by OzRose on 23rd August 2010, 21:37

It would appear that there is a variety of understock plants being used to bud roses onto across Australia for different reasons. I'm interested to hear what people are using and why, and what effect if any ,does being budded onto the different understock plants have on the finished rosebush.
For example , Fortuniana is touted as being "the" understock to grow roses on here in W.A , and "recommended " by the Rose Society , blah blah blah. This usually reaches a crescendo in the winter months when all the cheap bare bare rooted roses come in from the E.S to Bunnings and Big W etc . These all seem to be budded onto Dr Huey and if they fail to thrive [which can always be for a variety of reasons] the first thing that is usually pointed out in condescending tones is that they are not on Fortuniana so what do you expect .... Fortuniana having a root system on it that would find it's way back to China , through Perth's sands.

But I am not in Perth and nor am I on the coastal sandplain [which can be a bottomless pit when it comes to mulch , manure, water , nutrients etc ] and the E.S roses that I have bought as bare rooted cheapies on the
Dr Huey understock do well. I am at the western side and nearly at the top of the Darling Enscarpment and the soil here is sandy loam over lateritic clay [our block , not the area in general] , we have hot dry summers with very little humidity as a rule and either warmish wet winters or subzero and dry ones, but it suits the good Dr. On the otherhand the potted roses on Fortuniana take a lot longer to get established and if I am going to lose any bushes over their first summer , it's usually them . [Which figures as they are usually $15+ dearer than the bare rooted bushes Crying or Very sad ]

Multiflora is an unknown quantity to me here , I haven't seen any growing out as suckers from any of my bushes [fortuniana is very prone to this and the suckers are very distinctive and you pull them off asap while they are still sappy and green as the thorns are vicious] and the odd bush that has died but the stock hasn't turns out to be on Dr Huey.
But I have seen Dr Huey referred to as Dr Phooey on here so I take it that it doesn't perform well in other parts of the country and multiflora is the goer but I have seen multiflora be a disaster in Perth so it all becomes quite a drama.

So hence my curiosity about what works for who and where , and on what sort of soil and general climate .


cheers. Rosalie
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OzRose

Number of posts : 510
Age : 55
Location : In the hills. S.W of Western Australia
Registration date : 2010-03-13

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Re: Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

Post by Guest on 23rd August 2010, 22:58

On the Adelaide Plains (alkaline soil and hot dry summers)), Dr Huey is generally used. In the hills (generally acid soil and better rainfall), multiflora is preferred by some. Both do OK for me (in the hills) but I find that all understocks will sucker - the nurseries say they usually only do that if the plant is stressed. But!
David Ruston says that many of the old survivors in dry places (eg Bishop's Lodge) survived because they're on R indica major (and boy is that a survivor). Not sure why it fell from favour- hardly anyone in Aus uses it now - but it may have overwhelmed too many scions.

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Re: Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

Post by Admin on 23rd August 2010, 23:38

Multiflora works for me... fortuniana hated it here, Indica Major loves it here and I have a virus free clone of it... Manetti was used... only knew of one person still using it who is now out of business, Dr Phooey is terrible here... hates our acidic soil. I raise my own multiflora seedlings for understocks to ensure they are virus free. If you would like to try your own next autumn I can send you some op multilfora seeds. I also managed to score a virus free clone of Dr phooey... is a nice plant on its own IMO... others will tell you they hate it. For soem weird reason it grows nicely on its own here but other things languish on it.

I also have Amadis which was used as an understock once but I have not tried it as such.

I also have an unknown one that came up when the top section died off... have been looking for a long time for it and am still none-the-wiser.

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Re: Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

Post by OzRose on 24th August 2010, 01:09

Thank you for the offer of the multiflora seed Simon , I'd love to give them a try out.
Interesting , your comment about Dr Huey not liking your acidic soils ; our bore water is on the acid side apparently - has something to do with the sulphide [?] levels which in turn is related to the coalfields .
Somethings don't like the water on their leaves in the summertime but it doesn't appear to bother the roses .
Am off to look up R. indica major as I don't know it [I don't think]

cheers. Rosalie
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OzRose

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Re: Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

Post by Admin on 24th August 2010, 17:39

I have seedlings from Indica Major too... it's a great rose in its own right.

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Re: Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

Post by OzRose on 24th August 2010, 18:00

I looked up Indica Major last night on HMF . Turns out I have seen it [or something very like it] before around some of the old homestead gardens, I just didn't know what it was. If it is as tough as it sounds , it might make the perfect hedging rose , I need something really tough .
Do you have a pic of your unknown one ?
There are a couple of different ones that I know of growing where the bush has reclaimed old gardens and I have never been able to really ID them .
I'll have to get a pic or two to put on here and see if someone can name them for me. I suspect that they are the understock from some long overwhelmed bush.

cheers. Rosalie
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OzRose

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Age : 55
Location : In the hills. S.W of Western Australia
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Re: Understock. What do you use ? and Why?

Post by Admin on 24th August 2010, 20:07

Rather than repost all the images I'll link to a discussion that I had with people on HMF about it. It has quite a few pictures of a diagnostic nature:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and here's a link to it onmy blog site: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I suspect it might be what Billy has listed on HMF as 'Manetti in Australia'. Am waiting to hear back from her about it actually.

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