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Hall of Shame Roses

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Guest on 13th June 2010, 22:31

Ruston's doesn't have the trial ground; as far as I know "the" trial ground for new releases (imports and Oz-breds) is the one in the Adelaide Botanical Gardens. Having a trial ground in each state sounds good but could work out pricey for the breeder. I can't buy having "the" trial ground in a place that we know doesn't suit roses, though; better for people in subtropical and tropical areas to go predominantly for plants that suit their district. I have no mysticism about roses. They're just one option among many. I can't believe the people O/S who grow roses that they say need spraying every week (woe to the planet!).
Among roses, I agree with Ozeboy that there are better options than HTs if you want a plant that looks good in the garden most of the year. I think I'm down to three "modern" HTs - Baroness Rothschild and two Oz-breds; I have some 1930s and pre-1920s HTs that have stood the test of time, but I don't prune them in the ugly style set up for the English winter and the showbench.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Admin on 13th June 2010, 22:48

Have you ever grown 'La France'... this one fascinates me...

Yes the trial ground is in Adelaide Botanical Gardens (see links section.. there is a link to their website). I have spoken with the previous trial grounds secretary who said the other states were offered to make a trial ground but they did not respond... so it went to Adelaide by default almost.

I think the better option, as far as testing roses goes, for breeders is to have a network of trusted friends in different places and come up with their own set of criteria against which their roses are 'judged'. I can trial roses in a cool temperate climate here... Damo in Goulburn, Bruce in Sydney... Gary in QLD... I mean we have the makings of a trial network here already. The only thing we wouldn't have is that medal to put on our tags when we start marketting Rolling Eyes

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Guest on 14th June 2010, 09:42

I haven't grown La France, but I have a foundling which is almost certainly its paler sport, Mlle Augustine Guinoisseau. Lemonade-scented. It does quite well on its own roots in my Ring garden, although that gets soggy and frosty in winter. Fairly low-growing.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Balinbear on 14th June 2010, 19:31

Our La France was consigned to the fire heap after 2 years wit little growth and hardly any flowers. It was a scale magnet and the few leaves it had soon fell off wit intense BS.

No a very good rose for us.
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Ozrosarian on 20th June 2010, 23:59

Margaret wrote:
Among roses, I agree with Ozeboy that there are better options than HTs if you want a plant that looks good in the garden most of the year. I think I'm down to three "modern" HTs - Baroness Rothschild and two Oz-breds;

You may try some David Austin's English roses, that I've found to be really good in Australia.
- Teasing Georgia
- Jubilee Celebration (an amazing offspring of Golden Celebration)
- Leander
- Pegasus
- Moulineux
- William Morris
- Abraham Darby
- Tess d'Ubervilles
Not sure if you have tried any of these before. I've tried many DAs, but whenever I plant these, or wherever I do it (I've tried southern Europe, WA and VIC), they perform really well and are trouble-free.
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by The Estate on 21st June 2010, 08:50

Teasing Georgia is one of my favs, also Golden Celebration
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Ozrosarian on 21st June 2010, 09:39

Rose Petal wrote:Teasing Georgia is one of my favs, also Golden Celebration

Ah yes, and The Ambridge Rose too. She's just great, and can be used as a HT substitute anytime, anywhere. Stands against the heat much better than Scepter'd Isle and has somewhat mellower myrrh scent mixed with vanilla and/or Heliotrope aromas.
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by The Estate on 21st June 2010, 10:48

That is a newbie to me Rolling Eyes
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Ozrosarian on 21st June 2010, 11:04

Rose Petal wrote:That is a newbie to me Rolling Eyes

The growth is upright and slightly wider than a normal HT, and grows up to some 1.6 m. You see from the pictures that it has HT-like foliage and growth. If you plant two, they'll mingle and produce an outstanding shrub that will knock people's socks off.
Highly recommended. I couldn't live without it.
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Lauriek on 21st June 2010, 11:43

When I had Woburn Abbey, it did really well. I also had 2 German Shepherds and unfortunately they managed to destroy it! I will have to get it again.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Guest on 21st June 2010, 13:07

A lot of Austins look great and grow well, but for me the myrrh scent is too high a price to pay. I grow Windrush and Jude the Obscure, which don't have it.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Ozrosarian on 21st June 2010, 13:46

Margaret wrote:A lot of Austins look great and grow well, but for me the myrrh scent is too high a price to pay. I grow Windrush and Jude the Obscure, which don't have it.

Myrrh fragrance, citrus/fruity and tea fragrance go well in hotter climates. Say, Pegasus (strong tea fragrance) just smells forever in a vase, or Ambridge Rose (myrrh). But damask scent disappears quicker in hotter climates (to my knowledge and experience). I need to spray all cut flowers with water mist to retain damask scent for a while longer, and put the vase away from direct light. Same is when growing them; I put all red double roses with damask scent way back, in semi-shade, and put forward semidoubles and lighter ones with tea & myrrh fragrance.


Last edited by Ozrosarian on 21st June 2010, 14:20; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by The Estate on 21st June 2010, 14:11

Ozrosarian wrote:
Rose Petal wrote:That is a newbie to me Rolling Eyes

The growth is upright and slightly wider than a normal HT, and grows up to some 1.6 m. You see from the pictures that it has HT-like foliage and growth. If you plant two, they'll mingle and produce an outstanding shrub that will knock people's socks off.
Highly recommended. I couldn't live without it.
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Absolutely stuning Oz love
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Admin on 21st June 2010, 16:07

I don't think any Austin's (apart from maybe 'Pretty Jessica' Rolling Eyes) deserves to be in the hall of shame... this is a place reserved for the very worst of the worst affraid Most Austin's are quite beautiful given the proper care and attention. Down here in Tasmania the Austins are, in general, quite stunning and I too would not be without a few. 'Pegasus' is among my favourites. 'Abraham Darby' is an outstanding breeder and, whilst it is slow to build here, is beginning to develop into a beautiful plant. Autumn and into winter is definately the best time for AD... it sulks here in the summer. 'Othello' is thorny in the extreme but I love its wonderful perfume... one whiff and all its many faults are forgiven. 'Mary Rose' is pretty ordinary IMO... I'm going to try it as an own root plant to see if I can get a better spreading plant shape out of it. Grafted onto Dr Phooey here it is below average. One of its sports, 'Winchester Cathedral' is shaping up to be a much better rose here than 'Mary Rose' is. I haven't tried 'Jude the Obscure' yet... kinda interested but not enough to make me go out and buy it yet. I want to get 'Benjamin Britten' (Dee... the cuttings looked like they had taken and then went black on me Sad ), because I want to cross it with 'Fortune's Double Yellow' as Karen (Rosemeadow) did... that cross intrigues me. In general, for me, it's the old roses behind the DAs that interest me more.

So... all up... I think we need to reserve this place here for the very worst... the indefensible... the intolerable... the ugly... the absolute bottrom of the barrel... The photos, Oz, are just lovely and a clear indication of why the DAs have proven so popular all around the world.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by The Estate on 21st June 2010, 18:32

Yes Mary is a non performer here also Simon, would love a pic of Pegasus, one of my fave songs in the 70's flower

My thing is that they are planted FAR too close together and just cramped in where I can find a piece of soil Suspect , hence now if they go to 'GoD' not replaced No let the other angels spread their wings and if they don't they be dewinged as well Twisted Evil
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Admin on 21st June 2010, 18:55

Never got around to photographing Pegasus... you can see it here though: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (This is Rita's old plant. Rita is also a member here).

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by The Estate on 21st June 2010, 19:12

Shocked that is So nice as well love Might have to in time, not this season, shovel prune a few more and make way for my retirement roses lol!
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Guest on 21st June 2010, 19:37

I think Claire Rose has earned a place here. I'm told that florists can't get enough of it (yeah, because it's plastic). It was the unhealthiest rose in my garden, so either the florists buy from people who spray non-stop, or they sell it with all the leaves removed.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by The Estate on 21st June 2010, 19:57

Margaret wrote:I think Claire Rose has earned a place here. I'm told that florists can't get enough of it (yeah, because it's plastic). It was the unhealthiest rose in my garden, so either the florists buy from people who spray non-stop, or they sell it with all the leaves removed.

So your not happy Jan, opps meant Margaret Twisted Evil
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Admin on 21st June 2010, 20:15

You don't get much black spot in greenhouses though margaret... mildew yes but not much spotting... I don't know 'Claire Rose' either.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Ozrosarian on 22nd June 2010, 07:28

I'll move Ambridge Rose to the Hall of Fame. I'm just now discovering all the titbits of this forum. Thank you all.
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by OzRose on 4th September 2010, 02:37

Just discovered this thread .
Funny the first rose to be mentioned was Woburn Abbey. It was probably one of the first roses to disapoint me when I started off my first rose garden .
I bought it because I remembered the wonderful display that the beds in the middle of Kings Park Road used to make when I was a kid.
They simply glowed.
Well the one in Donnybrook didn't glow very often ; it was a piddly grower and stingy with it's flowers . I'll include Whisky and Julia's Rose in with it . There was no excuse for their poor showing at that place either , it was rose growing heaven with rich loamy soil , lots of water and manure unlimited . I didn't shovel prune them though , just let them be but I have not bought them again. I have a "Climbing" Julia's Rose now , it doesn't climb but it does grow slightly better than the bush and certainly produces more flowers . It's stuck in an out of the way spot where i don't have to look at it's scabby growth and barely give it a second thought [or anything else for that matter] till it flowers. Others that I was not impressed with were the whites Honor , Mt. Shasta and John F. Kennedy . Couldn't fault their growth or flower production - it was their colour in my garden . They always seemed to look a grubby grey shade of white . Not attractive at all .
Souvenir de la Malmaison is another one I haven't bothered with , not really her fault poor love but her sense of flowering timing was just so off . She's a bit like the little girl with the little curl .... and flowering nearly always coinciding with rainy spells , those brown mooshy balls were not nice.

I've never deliberately shovel pruned or killed a rose , if they were not doing so well I would move [and still do] them around the garden to see if a change of location helped or just park them somewhere in the outer reaches of the yard.
I did end up killing the feral fortuniana that was in the garden in Donnybrook . That didn't start out as pre-meditated murder , I just wanted to transplant it so it wasn't slashing at me everytime I used the front steps. But by the time I'd had a week of nearly digging to China trying to get it out , getting ripped to bits by it's thorns and in general not making any progress , it was open season with axe n mattock n chainsaw . Fixed it. Twisted Evil

Ophelia is not doing well for me here atm , but the roses haven't exactly been pampered the last couple of years so we'll see how she goes this year..

cheers. Oz
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Admin on 4th September 2010, 13:07

One thing I would recommend people with poorly doing roses try is to see if you can strike it and grow it own root. I firmly believe that the choice of understock for particular areas can doom a rose to failure. Burgundy Iceberg is a classic example. It is, without exception I think, grafted onto Dr Phooey. When grown here own root it does quite well. On Dr Phooey it is a big FAIL.

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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by OzRose on 4th September 2010, 13:24

Well that's worth a try with Ophelia at any rate.
I haven't tried BI at all yet.
One of the main complaints I have heard from people is lack of consistency in colour and it didn't live up to the dark burgundy colour as expected.
The few that I have seen in flower , have the burgundy colour but it lacks intensity , watery almost . It may just be something as simple as feeding more potash , I don't know .
All I know is that alot of people aren't happy with it.

cheers. Rosalie
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Re: Hall of Shame Roses

Post by Admin on 4th September 2010, 13:53

I would agree with this too. A lot of the Iceberg sports have been very unstable. Have a look on HMF at some of their colours... some are even half whit half coloured. Have a look at this little article I wrote on it and you'll see the variation in my own plants: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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