Poll about a new rose (hypothetical case)

Just went to HMF to check out the Marianne that Margaret instanced. Mmmmm...I'd buy that one. I voted no at the outset because there is quite a long list of once-flowerers that I would plant if only I had the room so there seemed no point adding to the list. But as Marianne has demonstrated, I could be persuaded.

David,

The use of the word 'remontancy' is a case of semantics.... Remontancy has a wide range of different forms. It can range from being once-flowering, which is called non-remontant, right through to continuous flowering, which might be called fully remontant. Note the words remontancy and remontant do not mean the same thing and the word remontancy does not mean repeat flowering. The word remontant does mean repeat flowering.

To use an example of what I mean consider a rubber band. One of the properties of an rubber band is elasticity. I can measure its elasticity by measuring HOW elastic it is. If I have three rubber bands and compare their elasticity I might find one to be poorly elastic, another to be moderately elastic and the last one to be very elastic. All three are ways to describe their elasticity.

It's the same for roses. Remontancy is a term used to describe HOW remontant a rose is. If I have three roses and one flowers only once in spring, another flowers in spring and then with scattered blooms until winter, and the last flowers its head off all year then I can describe their remontancy as non-remontant, partially remontant, and fully remontant respectively. So when I say I am only referring to remontancy I am not referring to repeat flowering. I am, instead, referring to its flowering habit which in this case is once flowering.

Simon

Your school eacher is showing!!!!

Thanks for the the lesson, I still think your hiding something with words

Nope.... not at all... scouts honor

Simon, has this come to a halt and if so what is the outcome

So far there has only been 12 votes... 3 for yes, 4 for maybe, and 5 for no. I have not voted yet because I did not want to sway the vote. My vote, however, will be for yes. Remontancy is not an issue for me if the plants are great.

Here is the reason behind the poll.

As someone who wants to make rose breeding a major part of his life my underlying values are that the plant MUST be healthy and be able to grow strongly on its own roots and the flower is secondary to all of this... that will come in time. A wise person once advised me that in breeding anything you need to build your house first and THEN paint it. If a rose flowers only once, but is superior in all other respects then it should be grown and should be able to compete in trials on an even playing field. I do not believe non-remontant plants should be judged against fully remontant plants because they are different types of roses with different purposes. Seasonal gardens where roses are but part of the scheme are an example of how they are used. I won't go into why I think this. Suffice to say that I don't value a once flowering rose any less than a continuously flowering rose.

The national trial garden is trying to promote itself as a place where new roses should be sent for trialling where suitability to Australian conditions is assessed. That's great. The whole concept of roses suited to Australian conditions is one I embrace myself. However, I don't believe this is what they are assessing. One of their criteria is remonatncy. A fully remontant rose gains more points than a non-remontant rose. I want to know why? I have asked them and had no reply. If I bred a terrific non-remontant rose it will never score as highly as a non-remontant rose because someone deemed once flowering to be a negative feature. So I wanted to know what others thought.

Interesting and well said, Simon. Couldn't agree more.

Mottisfont and Sissinghurst are two of the most popular (most-visited) gardens in the world. The majority of their roses are once blooming.

Here's the Royal National Rose Gardens at St Albans, UK and a bed of once-blooming Gallicas looking fabulous:

Yes I would as I have plenty of room to grow roses, I am a collector of all roses and I can't wait to see what the once blooming roses are going to look like each year as they get more established.
I surpose the Rose Trials are based on roses the main market of people would be interested in buying, but I reckon there are a lot of properties all over Australia that could all be landscaping around their homes with roses of all levels of remontancy.
Lovely photo, Dave.

Once flowering roses are overlooked because people don't know enough about gardening and don't care much. They want fireworks happening every month in a garden and can't appreciate green colour and healthy foliage, which are most important in the garden.

People don't know enough about roses too. They just plonk one here, another there, and after a while you see those poor shrubs standing alone, in mulch and nothing else's around. A horrible sight.

Instead, use once flowering roses with perennials and repeat flowering roses to achieve a beautiful scene that is dynamic and won't exhaust the soil. I couldn't imagine my garden without Gallica Officinalis, Tuscany Superb or Chianti, example, or climbing Spanish Beauty. They grow and mingles with salvia, violets, English roses, etc. Once Gallica Officinalis is in bloom, there no remontant rose on this planet that can match number of blooms produced or match the sheer daintiness of flowers. You can't have both.

The lifespan of remontant roses is ways shorter, they are prone to more diseases, etc. Once-flowering roses are God-send for any serious, beautiful garden.

Yes, give me Marianne and I'll pull out any remontant rose, anytime.

I agree with the two last comments re the popularity of bright coloured,repeat flowering bush roses.
Its a commercial reason and whilst the buying public are ignorant about their purchase the market is really driven by the large growers,retailers and landscapers to a lesser extent. A corporatist world will tell you they produce what the public demands,but in reality they control and create that market.Its the other way around. We are influenced by the bright displays which scream" buy me" , its impulse buying. No mention you are obtaining a diseased, poorly structured and short lived plant.
The short longevity allows new ones to be marketed and the cycle continues.
That said, some growers are trying to improve disease resistance, I would not be without Aotearoa,lil Marlene, Tamora, or indeed Mr Lincoln. The yellow floribunda, sold under licence by Swanes called Sunny Boy is another which has no disease,and its yellow!
The overuse of Iceberg in boring landscaping has made it a purist laughing stock, but if grown as a shrub with light trimming ,with shears occasionally, it behaves like a mini Tea rose,masses of flowers,healthy foliage and a great structure.
Re once flowerers,its interesting that we ignore the fact that they flower with amazing vibrancy for sometimes 6-8 weeks, yet we all love Camellias, flowering gums, Tibouchinas etc etc which actually flower for sometimes a shorter period.

Spot on...

Buy: nup
Freeby: yep

LOL

A couple of reasons why non-repeat flowering is not everything

Alice Garnier


Albertine