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Petition against RMV!!!

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Petition against RMV!!!

Post by Admin on 12th December 2009, 13:23

Does anyone here have any experience with doing formal and legal petitions? I have had a gut-full of RMV!!! I checked two roses today purchased from the mainland during the last winter and they are showing RMV patterns... I paid nearly $100 for three roses once postage was factored into it and still we get sent inferior stock (two of the three are showing symptoms... the third (rugosa 'alba') is not showing symptoms and I don't know whether it's because it is not infected or the variety is just more resistant to the disease. I think it is time we forced their hand and started a formal campaign to erradicate this disease. I think it is just plain rude and arrogant that they continue to produce plants on infected understocks, use infected scions, expect us to put up with it, and charge to world for it. Just in case anyone is wondering these roses were from one of the top rose producers in the country who have been recommended on here more than once and who base their reputation on producing quality roses and who do a fair bit to support Australian-bred roses. This is the third lot of roses bought from the mainland last winter that have turned out to be infected... and they aren't cheapies either. If anyone has any formal legal experience to put together such a document I would love to hear from you.


Last edited by Simon on 12th December 2009, 18:53; edited 1 time in total

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
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Re: Petition against RMV!!!

Post by Ozeboy on 12th December 2009, 17:17

Simon, I have two daughters, both Lawyers who have the ability. Unfortunatly both work in the big end of town and sign agreements not to do any work outside their employers.
Their work is hush hush , mothers ,fathers and husbands do not know who they represent or what cases they are working on ever.
Will have to wait until one is not working.

Ozeboy

Number of posts : 1669
Location : Glenorie, Sydney NSW
Registration date : 2008-12-28

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Re: Petition against RMV!!!

Post by Ozeboy on 13th December 2009, 12:59

Simon I would not be throwing out those roses, just keep them and have a look at the options.
Most references suggest there are two types, APMV and PNRSV.

There are claims there is no cure other than to expose the plant consistantly to 40 degrees C for 21 to 30 days. Then taking buds from the treated plant and grafting onto virus free rootstocks.

That does not appear difficult to make up a cabinet with heater and thermostatic control. Would think a glass cabinet to observe and control light most suitable. Is that worth the trouble when gardens having 50 non infected roses and two infected roses end up with the whole garden infected despite no grafting. Infection from tools has been claimed as a transmission source though Aphids have also been blamed.

Could it be that some roses are more likely to show the condittion through genetical variation. I have a "Reve de Or" that showed RMV during the first 12 months after planting and hasn't shown it again over the past 3 years. Possibly good growing condittions and the plants becoming better established is the answer.

I don't think our commercial nurseries can advertise virus free stock as this RMV problem is so hard to identify. You can have an infected rose that does not show any symptoms but is a source of infection to other plants.
The whole thing is not black and white and until there is a definate test for it then we are all working in the dark.

Let's hope there is more reserch as some roses suffer badly while others show almost no signs.

Ozeboy

Number of posts : 1669
Location : Glenorie, Sydney NSW
Registration date : 2008-12-28

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Re: Petition against RMV!!!

Post by Admin on 13th December 2009, 23:18

Hi Bruce... this is something I am well down the track of... I have been sent a complete set of instructions for carrying out thermal therapy... the protocol calls for 28-31 days at 38 degrees Celcius. Over the coming Christmas holidays this is one of my projects... I just haven't worked out how I am going to heat it yet. I do have a 240V heating element, a thermostat (+-3 degrees Celcius though.. so not very accurate), and a 240V fan left over from an incubaotr I made (I have since upgraded to a nice new R-com incubator so don't have a use for the DIY one anymore ) and was thinking I might make it out of ply instead of glass with a fluoro fitting inside it (which I already have as well as a 105W 5000K compact fluoro hydroponics light)

You are absolutely correct about some roses showing symptoms more than others. I recently asked the same question on RHA and was told that one of the diagnostic tests for RMV is to bud onto clean 'Ophelia' or its sport 'MME Butterfly' because they show symptoms very clearly and quickly.

Is that worth the trouble when gardens having 50 non infected roses and two infected roses end up with the whole garden infected despite no grafting. Infection from tools has been claimed as a transmission source though Aphids have also been blamed.

If we are primarily talking about PNRSV then these comments have not been shown to be true. RMV is considered non-contagious in roses in the field or in greenhouses and efforts to deliberately infect ROSES with pruning implements and infected pollen have so far proven unsuccessful... according to the last time I googled the abstracts related to it. Aphids can pass on some viruses but again, they have not been shown to transmit RMV. There are other viruses that I think are present that are compounding the problem of RMV.

The problem of RMV infected stock is not that hard to indentify. There are a number of tests that can be done to confirm it.. some are not entirely reliable but give a pretty good indication especially when used in conjucntion with other tests... such as the one mentioned above with 'Ophelia' and 'MME Butterfly'. You can also have samples sent to a lab and have ELISA testing done. I contacted a lab down here back in January (16th) and asked them:

If I was to send leaf material to New Town Laboratories can you perform ELISA testing for RMV and if so what kind of material is best? I would imagine given the virus is temperature sensitive that leaves taken in the cooler months or spring would be better, however, I have been talking with Dr Malcolm Manners in Florida regarding the 'cleansing' of RMV from infected rose varieties and he said that ELISA testing was sensitive enough to detect virus even during the warmest times of the year in Florida. Have you found this to be the case? I would also like to be advised of best-practice collection, storage, and delivery procedures to ensure a high degree of suitability and accuracy. One last thing, can you confirm that the prices listed here for testing are current: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

To this request I got this reply:

Dear Simon

Yes we can test your rose leaf samples for Rose mosaic virus syn. Apple mosaic virus (ApMV) using ApMV antisera reagents from Agdia, USA. We perform this test routinely to detect the same virus in Tasmanian hops. We have not had direct experience testing ApMV in rose under different temperature conditions, however we have found that PNRSV testing of stonefruit is more reliable in Spring than it is in Summer (this is not just a temperature thing though as it also relates to new growth). For some reason we find our ApMV test to be better than our PNRSV test ie stronger clearer reactions with less background which I believe equates to a more robust test. I wonder if your Florida contact also uses the Agdia reagents?

Normal rose leaves are quite tough and will keep well. If the plants you are testing are small (eg tissue culture) then one or two leaves are probably enough for indexing. More leaves should be chosen for a fully grown rose bush. Symptomatic material should be chosen where present (unless you are already rogueing/destroying plants with symptoms). Leaves should be harvested, placed in individual plastic bags, labelled, and sent as soon as convenient - preferably by overnight post. Harvested leaves should be stored in the fridge if not sent that day. If you have large numbers of plants for indexing then bulking leaves could be an option and would reduce costs. Possibly easier to discuss this over the phone.

Do you plan to test introduced stock prior to tissue culture as well as after?

Yes that pricing schedule is still current.

Look forward to discussing this further with you.

Regards

Peter Cross

******************************************************
TASAG ELISA and Pathogen Testing Service
Plant Health Branch
Biosecurity and Product Integrity Division
Dept of Primary Industries & Water
New Town Laboratories
13 St John’s Avenue
NEW TOWN
TAS 7008
AUSTRALIA

Ph: 03 6233 6845
Fax:03 6278 2716
Email:Peter.Cross@dpiw.tas.gov.au

So... if I was growing roses commercially and wanted to know for sure whether a variety I had was infected it could be done without too much trouble.

One of the main problems here in Australia seems to be a lack of understadning of the virus amongst commercial growers. For example... when I told the above growers that I had received infected stock the reply included a statement saying that the virus shows up when the termperatures are high or when the plants are under stress and this is when they select budwood to help choose non-infected stock. Now... if this is their current practice they could very easily choose budwood that was in fact infected because the symptoms are greatly reduced or absent when the temperature begins to climb, especially in those regions in Australia where a lot of our propagating is done and the temperatures can easily be in excess of 30 degrees Celcius for extended periods of time. I have been told point blank by growers that they have never noticed the infection up there... to which I am thinking; well I am not up there am I and if you knew anything about RMV then you would know that Tas has a much milder climate than where you are so you might go for years at a time and not notice it and then the instant it is sent down here... BANG! There it is... Other growers are budding anything and everything they can get their hands on... one rose in a body bag the other day (still... Rolling Eyes) had deformed and twisted foliage indicating possible Rose Rosette Disease...

I am friends with with Dr Sarah Pethybridge (who lives and works just down the road from me) who completed her PhD on RMV and is an excellent source of information for me and is assisting me in understanding the virus.

Anyway Bruce... I will pass on the full transcript of the thermal therapy protocol to you so you too can have a look at how it's done if this is something you too are interested in.

Admin

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Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

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Re: Petition against RMV!!!

Post by Ozeboy on 14th December 2009, 21:09

Thanks Simon for posting this information and look forward to the thermal therapy notes when to hand. You have certainly done a lot of investigation.
Do you have any idea of lab costs to firstly identify the problem.

We have quite a lot of infected plants in NSW showing up in suburban gardens.. These people don't propagate and just order plants from local nurseries.

Seems like you have all the equipment to make up a cabinet. The problem I have to address is keeping thermostat free from moisture laden air. Plants could be drip fed with warm water through a tube into the potting mix to avoid opening thus maintaining constant temperature. Light source could be artificial as you mentioned or a glass side and top.
Very interesting.!!!!!!!!

Ozeboy

Number of posts : 1669
Location : Glenorie, Sydney NSW
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Re: Petition against RMV!!!

Post by rosemeadow on 14th December 2009, 22:56

Good work Simon. Very informitive Simon and Bruce, Can I ask you some more questions ?
Did the Virus originate from multiflora or from a rose I wonder ? What country did it start in or has it always been with the rose and we have only recently identified it ? When was it first identified ? How much healthy budwood in Australia can we guess would still be left ? Is there a year date that you could say all roses before this never had the virus e.g., if a rose was of a fair age ?
We will have to see if there are any Australian rose suppliers that are doing the tests to have mosiac virus free stock for sale.

rosemeadow

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Re: Petition against RMV!!!

Post by Admin on 14th December 2009, 23:35

rosemeadow wrote:Good work Simon. Very informitive Simon and Bruce, Can I ask you some more questions ?
1 Did the Virus originate from multiflora or from a rose I wonder ? 2 What country did it start in or has it always been with the rose and we have only recently identified it ? 3 When was it first identified ? 3 How much healthy budwood in Australia can we guess would still be left ? 4 Is there a year date that you could say all roses before this never had the virus e.g., if a rose was of a fair age ?
5 We will have to see if there are any Australian rose suppliers that are doing the tests to have mosiac virus free stock for sale.

1. Actually, it supposedly came about when some mentally challenged person tried to graft a prunus variety onto a rose, if we are only talking about PNRSV. There are other forms such as Apple Mosaiv Virus (ApMV) etc and transmission of these other viruses can be natural. The rose used to try and bud the Prunus onto was not discarded when it failed.. instead it was used as a rose understock and so the cycle started. Guess what the understock was???... yep... 'Dr Huey' Rolling Eyes

2. I've never heard which country it started in but no... it's not a disease of roses originally... it is a disease of Prunus species, like apricots etc and when the above prunus/rose graft was attempted the virus made the jump across... so the story goes.

3. Around the 1920's, again so the story goes, about the time 'Dr Huey' was introduced.

4. I would say that unless you were certain that an OGR was in fact pre-1920's then no... I don't think you can say there is this magic age of roses that can't have RMV. Our dependence on grafting has seen to that Rolling Eyes If you know of a rose that is at least 90-100 years old then you could say it might be free of RMV. Another question would be how long after its appearance overseas did it take to arrive in Australia... this might be something worth finding out because if it took 50 years to turn up here that puts the age of clean roses here at around 40 years... so would be worth digging this up somehow for this reason.

5. I'd say it is as Bruce says... I don't think any nursery can say they are virus free... I can say, from direct correspondance with nurseries, that they are attempting some kind of 'quality control' measures to weed out the disease.. but the old saying “Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories...” comes to mind.. and without a thorough and accurate knowledge of the disease and maybe even a coordinated appraoch to erradicating it any measures short of shovel pruning are likely to be unsuccessful. Neutral

Admin

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Re: Petition against RMV!!!

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