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Crosses this year...

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Crosses this year...

Post by Admin on 31st October 2009, 18:13

Pollination has just started for me... Dave... You are a couple of weeks into it already aren't you?

So far I have done the following crosses:

'Scabrosa' x Rosa wichurana - FAILED
'Scabrosa' x 'Golden Chersonese' - FAILED
'Climbing Cecile Brunner' x 'Safrano' - FAILED
'Christopher Marlowe' x 'Safrano' - FAILED
'Scabrosa' x Rosa multiflora - FAILED

Most roses haven't yet started flowering fully here so things will speed up a little towards the end of November. I'm going to add to this as the season progresses.

Dave, what have you done so far? Anyone else done any?


Last edited by Simon on 22nd December 2009, 22:04; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Carole on 31st October 2009, 22:33

I havn't as our flowers are only just starting.
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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Bemo on 31st October 2009, 22:49

I'm faster than you, I still have sown out : Wink

Rose de Resht x Sympathie

Abraham Darby x Sympathie

Bonica x Jacobs Krönung (Loredo)

and some open pollinations of Sea foam, Brother Cadfeal, Rosenprofessor Sieber as well as some of my own seedlings.

keep on busy pollinating
Bernhard

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Admin on 1st November 2009, 17:49

Added a few more to the list today (* indicate longshots):

R. multiflora (white) x Safrano - FAILED
* R. multiflora (pink) x R. wichurana - FAILED
* Golden Chersonese x R. wichurana - FAILED
* Anemone x Safrano - FAILED
Scabrosa x Safrano
Othello x Safrano - FAILED
Crown Princess Mary x Safrano - FAILED
Suntan x Mutabilis
Mary Rose x Mutabilis - FAILED
Mary Rose x Safrano - FAILED
Holy Toledo x Mutabilis - FAILED

Will have to wait a while now... am out of little mesh bags Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Simon on 22nd December 2009, 22:05; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 15th December 2009, 08:25

Hello Smile

I really have no idea what I am doing as yet & I don't know what actually works but so far I have done:

New Dawn X Starlight Rose
New Dawn X Julia's Rose
New Dawn X Minijet
Cherries 'n' Cream X Afternoon Delight
Remember Me X Just Joey
Remember Me X Fiona's Wish
Remember Me X Marjorie Atherton &
Scout's Honour X Nearly Wild.

Just dabbling really. I mainly play with OP seed.

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by rosemeadow on 16th December 2009, 21:58

I look forward to seeing your future seedlings !

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Admin on 16th December 2009, 22:13

I think 'New Dawn' is a very worthy parent... but I would strongly recommend stayng away from 'Julia's Rose' as any kind of parent. The 'Star Light' is that new small lavender charity rose in hardware stores around the place now isn't it? I've looked at it and wondered about it... what's it like?

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 16th December 2009, 22:26

For me, it's all very particular & I have found that if I don't get a feeling for a cross I just cannot do it! LOL

With regard to the "Julia's Rose" I only used it because it was available & it is one of my top 5 fave roses. I expect nothing to come of it really. My "Julia's Rose" is absolutely beautiful atm but I know of it's...ummmm...issues! Hahaha. The cross involving "Nearly Wild" was a bit like this too; very random.

I bought the "Starlight Rose" the very moment I saw it & I cannot really comment on it too much yet because I still have it in its original pot & it has 12 marble sized OP hips on it.

I refuse to upgrade it to a bigger pot with better soil yet because my "Teddybear" rose dropped its hips (all but 2) when vigorous new growth happened after transplanting!

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Admin on 16th December 2009, 22:47

You have 'Teddy Bear'???? How would you feel about shipping some budwood down for me? I have been looking for this rose for ages! I grew it as a kid but haven't seen it for nearly 20 years. If you have 'Teddy Bear' and you like the coffee/brown colours of 'Julia's Rose' I would definately use TB instead as it is a proven breeder of latte-like colours and is a millions times better than JR... but again choose a much healthier partner as TB also has... 'issues'.

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 16th December 2009, 23:00

I bought "Teddybear" again recently at Goulburn. I had it in 2002 & it was not good to say the least . Only the memory of an amazing plant of it growing at Yass made me get it again & so far so good but, it grows just out of reach of rain (when it comes) & I am super-careful not to wet its foliage. A lot of hassle but worth it to me to get those beautiful blooms.

Just tell me what you require & it is yours!!!

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 16th December 2009, 23:13



love

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Ripley on 17th December 2009, 06:48

Can I ask you guys what the issues are with Julias Rose for breeding? Just curious, Ive always thought it would be interesting to see what happens with a cross with her. Julia Clemments who its named after had an interesting life.
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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 17th December 2009, 16:32

Ripley, just got on and I agree, I love the rose and colour, come and answer the Q fellas. Is it her parents or beyond. Simon your the one for saving roses, can't we breed some good things back in to her if she is so bad.
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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Admin on 17th December 2009, 19:49

I think people get a little one-eyed about roses, especially if they have nice flowers that are a little different and become more forgiving about the rose's other attributes. 'Julia's Rose' is one such rose. I grow it (until I shovel prune it and send it to TheE over the next day or so), and I too love the colour... I just can't justify all the other terrible qualities... such as;

* complete defoliation from black spot infections without continuous spraying. If you can turn a blind eye to black spot to the point where there are no leaves then this is the rose for you. If you look on HMF you will notice that 99% of the photos show only the bloom with very few leaves and only one full plant which doesn't look too bad... I can only imagine what they must have had to do to get it looking that good.
* significant dieback of stems.
* Sparse foliage... I feel this is a major drawback because it immediately reduces a plant's ability to capture sunlight... I like to see a well leafed out shrub as I believe this translates into a stronger bush. Having sparse foliage is, in my opinion, like putting a lap-band on a human stomach.
* The flowers are large (this is good) and semi-double (this is also not a bad thing) but they quickly blow completely out, bleach out looking like a wet rag waving in the wind then shatter and drop everywhere... this is not good.
* In the event that it has any leaves at all it will mildew badly here.
* The leaves are a dull lifeless green.
* It doesn't branch very well and those it does produce tend to stay small and spindly.

These are features in my garden where roses need to pretty much defend for themselves. It's a strategy to help me sort out the sheep from the goats because there are enough roses around that are popular soley because of their flowers with more than their fair share of problems... I don't want to use them in breeding to make more because these features are inheritable too. I sowed 1000 seeds last season and intend to sow double that this year. I don't want to waste my time and energy growing 500 seedlings on the off-chance that one or two will be keepers when, if colour is your sole motivation, there are other ways to get this same colour using roses that are far superior in every way. Take 'Hot Chocolate' for instance... not a perfect rose by any stretch as it still spots... however, it doesn't spot anywhere near as bad as 'Julia's Rose' and is a strong grower sending out masses of basal stems (even on its own roots) to create a nice shrub of lovely brown coloured flowers (tending to orange) with dense foliage of lovely colour and shine that repeats well with flowers that hold their form better even surviving wet weather better. It is also a proven pollen parent.

It's not about saving roses I don't think David... it's a matter of making better ones and knowing which ones are too far gone to be useful, especially if there are other ways around it. 'Julia's Rose' should be conserved and grown for the sake of posterity and conservation but there is no way on this Earth I would ever use it for breeding given the overwhelming weight of bad characteristics it has. I think she is important from a historical perspective because she represents a time in rose history where superficial features such as colour and the flower dominated the more fundamental features like health, landscaping potential, and vigour but I can guarantee she will produce nothing but compost-fodder when used as a breeder and my time and energy can be better invested elsewhere.


Last edited by Simon on 18th December 2009, 16:38; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 17th December 2009, 23:12

Hello all! Smile

I think, for me, I have read too many times that to breed the best roses one must use the best roses & I agree with Simon about the many faults of "Julia's Rose".

My plant is not overly fussed over but she gets daily attention. LOL

I once dreamed of raising an improved "Julia's Rose" but was forever scoffed at...maybe I should go back & experiment? I am not usually one to go with the flow but I too feel that Simon's "compost-fodder" statement just might be very accurate!

"Julia's Rose" is the rose that re-started my passion for roses in my late 20's. I saw a beautiful bloom & fell in love:



I will forever love her!!!

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Ozeboy on 17th December 2009, 23:17

Simon your post has saved me the trouble of posting something similar.
There are a lot of keen rose people out there collecting roses considered lost. Most should stay lost as they were not worthwhile when first introduced. I am wary of catalogues that just show the bloom when the overall bush, health and lastability of cut blooms is very important.

I live near Swanes and have a look at all the roses in Autumn only to find nothing looks good enough to buy. I have made mention before finding Rosa Superba at Green E Plants growing without coddling in a horse paddock over their driveway and decided that is the rose for me.
Roses have to be tough to live at my place.

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Ripley on 17th December 2009, 23:23

Opps sorry Simon, Ive never grown Julias before (dont particularly like the colour) but I do have it at work and I agree with you about those points about her (although I thought it was more to do with where we have her in the yard and our spraying program than the rose). I thought you may have been referring to genetic problems with the colour more than the plant. In that case I can recommend* Cafe as a stronger plant than Julias, smaller flowers, pretty much the same colour. Still gets BS but then again all our roses pretty much have it atm.
(*from my limited experience with these roses at work ie in pots and no more than 1 year old, over head watering and no constant attention Rolling Eyes )

Its funny how people do get hooked on a certain rose. I was just thinking today that the rose Fiona Stanley is a much nicer rose than Just Joey.. Hmmmm
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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Admin on 18th December 2009, 16:47

Yes Rip... 'Just Joey' is, IMO, another rose that fits this profile. Another one that comes to mind is a DA called 'Pretty Jessica'. I grew it once and shovel pruned it because it had RMV... but I didn't dislike it too much... it was a poor grower and the flowers never seemed to open very well... there was an online 'discussion' about it on GardenWeb that turned into a furor (which was as much about DA's heavy handed marketing tactics as it was about the rose itself) with people divided into two clearly defined camps about it. Personally I would never grow it again. BTW.. what are you sorry about LOL I made a statement... you asked a question... I explained my position LOL The problems are genetic problems... just not linked with the colour (that I'm aware of).

Jim Sproul's 'Honey Dijon' might be a better option than 'Julia's Rose'. I haven't grown it here but know that Jim puts his roses through extensive evaluation before they are introduced.

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Ripley on 19th December 2009, 08:40

Oh ive seen Honey Dijon, its lovely
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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Barbara B on 19th December 2009, 20:10

Hi,
I think Cafe has a completely different growth habit anf colour to Julia's Rose. Julia's Rose is more pinkish - Cafe is old gold. The flower is a different shape too - much more cupped and it hangs its head here.
It's a low growing bush - here it's about five years old but still only 600-700mm tall. It's a glamorous rose.
Barbara B

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 20th December 2009, 19:46

Hi Barbara. Just an aside, I have named a seedling "Somerville" because it flowered the day my GF moved there. It is a seedling of "Cousin Essie" & looks too similar to its grandparent "Honeyflow" but it is vigorous & healthy so I am keeping it.

Now onto "Cafe". I had "Cafe" years ago & I wish I had kept it because its colour was much to my liking; the "hanging head" was not though & I had awful trouble keeping it healthy in Sydney. I think I will give it another go oneday though...

FWIW I have decided to do "Maggie Rose" X "Julia's Rose" next year to see what happens...

"Julia's Rose" does well here (up in the mountains between Goulburn & Bathurst). I do not spray my roses. 30 seconds a day to check moisture & remove any BS & she rewards me well. When I lived in Sydney it was not the same though. Talk about a losing battle!

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Barbara B on 20th December 2009, 20:39

Hi Damo,
Cousin Essie and Honeyflow are very similar.
In which part of Somerville is your GF?
I can't find "Maggie Rose" - do you mean "Maggie"?
Julia's Rose doesn't do very well here for me. It's not a vigorous rose.
We don't spray our roses either.
Barbara B

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 20th December 2009, 20:59

Hi again Barbara. I did mean "Maggie"! Oooops. I was sorting out photos I took of "Cousin Essie", "Honeyflow" & my "Somerville" last night & it was tough going to ID who was who.

My GF lives on Robert St...I haven't got down there yet. Spent a wonderful week down your way recently! (Hastings area). Went to the great antique place at Tyabb yet again.


Last edited by Damo on 20th December 2009, 21:01; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Tyaab to Tyabb...LOL)

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Barbara B on 21st December 2009, 05:35

Hi Damo,
your GF is quite close to us as the crow flies. The Tyabb Packing House is a great place for antiques but they sure know how to charge. It's worth a visit just as a tourist attraction, isn't it?
Did you get to Treloar's Roses on Moorooduc Road?

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Re: Crosses this year...

Post by Guest on 21st December 2009, 16:31

OMG Barbara I had no idea Treloar had an outlet down that way...thanks for the heads up. Is it worth visiting? Surely it is & I will be going anyway because I am looking for more roses to hybridize with! I was thinking of XPTing it down that way again next time (late January) but I might be forced to take my car now. Wink Totally agree re expensive antiques! Shocked I still bought things though! Laughing

I went looking for new roses today & bought "Topsy Turvy" on a whim & I will probably regret it! LOL Saw a lovely plant of "Fourth of July" but I noticed a couple of suspect leaves (RMV) so let it go! Crying or Very sad

Quick question for Simon & any other peeps who raise their own roses in Australia. What time/month of the year do you stop throwing pollen around. I have a few roses that will be blooming strongly by mid to late January but I don't know if that is too late? I know it depends on where exactly we are but I am thinking if people succeed further south of me with late crosses I might as well try. I think I should have asked this question somewhere else but I don't feel confident enough to do that just yet.

Anyway, better get out & see what needs doing.

Oh & my cross for the day: "Centenaire de Lourdes" x "Innocencia".

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Re: Crosses this year...

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