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Getting started...where to begin ??

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Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by wedge on 30th September 2009, 11:15

Hi all. This is my first post so i'm looking forward to any help i can get. So, where do i start ?? I have tried to grow a few roses over the years with only moderate success. We are slowly doing work to our house which lends itself to the cottage look. Roses would certainly compliment that look. Recently my wife and i visited New Zealand and while there we visited the Dunedin botanical gardens and a public rose garden in Timaru. Being an avid photographer, my wife started taking hundreds of photos of the roses and i was her spotter. We fell in love with roses !! I'm sure that growing roses where we live on the coast in central Queensland will have it's challenges as the climate tends to be very hot and humid in summer and very mild in winter. We only rarely ever get frost here. At this time of the year it is dry but come the wet season around Christmas we can get deluged. The most rain i have seen here was back in the early 90's when we had almost 14ft of rain over a 3 week period. Getting 600mm of rain in a few hours is not uncommon and then for the rest of the year it can be very dry. The area where we live is slightly west of Mackay and when it rains the local area has a lot of water that builds up before it can get away. The original owner of this property built part of the yard up with a very sandy soil which is almost 600mm deep in places. My wife ordered some climbing and ground cover roses about 6 weeks ago and when they arrived i had no choice but to pot them out as i hadn't a garden ready for them. They were bare rooted roses. I used a commercial rose potting mix to which i added well rotted horse manure and a little blood and bone. They are growing well at the moment. I have access to as much well rotted horse manure as i want as my daughter works on a cattle property not far from here. The gardens i chose for the roses are up either side of a carport with lattice down each side. I have now cleared out one garden of all it's ferns and shrubs and have planted out 2 climbers and 3 ground cover roses. I realise that the gardens should have been prepared a long time ago but i wasn't aware that my wife had ordered the roses until about a week before they arrived. I dug the garden over and added as much horse manure as i could and a sprinkling of blood and bone. I dug the holes about 500mm deep by 500mm round and placed a thick layer of manure and soil in the bottom and then took the rose from its pot and placed it into the hole so the graft was about 50mm above ground. I then added the same mixture of manure and soil around the rose and tamped in lightly. I also added a small amount of trace element for roses that i sprinkled out wide around the drip line according to the directions and then watered in well. I know that planting out the roses was not the most favourable way of doing it but they seem to be doing ok a few days on. A few of them are actually budding and Pincushion has already produced one flower. I still have about 6 more roses to plant out up the other side of the carport but this may take a few weeks as i have to repair and paint the lattice first. Due to the climate conditions here i think i will have to be constantly on my guard for diseases and pests. Any help and suggestions you can help me with would be fantastic as i'm basically a novice at this type of thing !! I'm planning on getting a few gardens ready for next year so any advice would be tremendously appreciated. Cheers......Dave.
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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by orchid40 on 30th September 2009, 13:25

You seem to have made an excellent start, Dave. With all the rain you get there the roses must have good drainage, but the sandy soil should deal with that. They love horse manure and blood & bone so they should do well.
Roses are very forgiving and tough, so they're ideal for difficult conditions. You'll get plenty more advice than this from REAL experts!! This will do for starters Smile

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by Alee on 30th September 2009, 13:28

Dave, I'm sure there are a lot of people here who could guide you in the right path. Good luck.

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by wedge on 30th September 2009, 13:53

Thanks guys for the advice....i'm sure going to need it !! I'm committed at this stage to put the rest of the roses we bought into the next garden that's tottaly unprepared but nothing i can do about it unfortunately. As the season wears on and i start to get ready for next year there will be a lot of reading to do and a heap of advice i'd like to ask you guys if that's ok ?? As i said in my original post, living in this area has it's challenges. After i posted that, a willy willy came through here and lifted all the sugar cane trash (leaf material that's left after harvesting) from across the road and dumped it in my yard that i took hours to mow and clean yesterday. I tried very hard not to swear !!! OMG!!!
Cheers....Dave.
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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by orchid40 on 30th September 2009, 14:31

A thought for you Dave - if your beds are not ready the roses will be fine in large pots for a year or two.

Oh, well I would have had a good swear at all the sugar cane if it had been me!!!

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by wedge on 30th September 2009, 15:23

Thanks Orchid40 but i already did !! Embarassed I have a question concerning buds. Since we bought these bare rooted roses and potted them out they look like they are really thriving. In 6 weeks the climbers have grown about 2ft or more. Both the climbers and ground covers roses are really producing a lot of buds and i'm not sure to remove them or just leave them. What would you suggest ?? One climber that i removed from its pot and planted out isn't looking happy. I gave it a deep watering yesterday to see if that would help but it's still not looking happy. Should i back off on the watering for now ?? BTW....thanks for your help in advance. Cheers...Dave.
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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by orchid40 on 30th September 2009, 16:02

There's no reason that I know of to remove buds, Dave. Later on if you get to show standards I think that might be done. This time of year is wonderful for rose growth, and you will have blooms to admire soon. If you gave the climber a drink when you planted it out it should be fine, but if it's wet already don't give it any more for a few days, it's probably in shock. It's recommended that a seaweed concentrate diluted well reduces shock at transplanting. There are many varieties on the market. Next time you water them all I suggest you give them some. It's not a food as such, it's a soil conditioner with nutrients in it. They say not to feed a bare-rooted rose with proper rose food(ie. Sudden Impact, Dynamic Lifter etc) for the first year. Manure and B& B are fine but manure directly on rose roots can burn. It's better as a mulch around them really, but B&B can be dug in.
As for diseases and pests, some parts of the country suffer with them more than others. Black Spot is a pain, and although it rarely kills roses it looks awful and they defoliate. A regular spraying programme alternating a few different fungicides can help prevent it. Same with Powdery Mildew, but you may not get it and the treatment for that is simpler. Rust and Rose Mosaic disease are also around, but again, you may not get them on your roses.
Pests - Hmmm. Aphids are about at the moment, and you can squirt them off with a hose, squish them with your fingers, or spray with an insecticide like Pyrethrum. Ladybirds are their natural enemy so hope for some in your garden!
Thrips are the worst in my opinion, they arrive as the weather turns warmer, and enter the rose buds (mainly light coloured ones) and damage the flower before it blooms. The petals have brown edges to them- Yuck. They are very very tiny black insects, and they arrive in millions. Get out the big guns for them, Confidor or Rogor or similar work.
By the way Dave, if you have a digital camera we'd love to watch your progress, we like pictures!

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by wedge on 30th September 2009, 16:34

Hi again Orchid. Gee, you're quick to reply. Thanks for that. So you want some photos....hmmm !!! I hope i can figure out how to do that better than i am at growing roses at the moment. That's good advice about the manure. I have access to a pile that's about 4mtrs round and about 1.5mtrs high and growing by the day. It's well rotted down but in the amounts i can apply it, it may be a problem perhaps ?? Another question i have is about the climbers. The two i have planted out are up against some lattice where i'm hoping they'll do well. How soon should i tie them to the lattice or should i just let them find their own way for a while ?? Gee...so many questions !!! Embarassed
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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by Guest on 30th September 2009, 16:58

I take off most of the flower buds from baby own-root roses for the first summer; budded roses are generally sold at a more advanced stage and should be OK. However I would take the flower buds off any rose (or other plant) that looks stressed, and any young plant in a drought summer.

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by wedge on 30th September 2009, 17:27

Thanks for that Margret. I really wasn't sure what to do as they are producing heaps of buds. We bought them as bare rooted roses about 6 weeks ago and they are doing well in pots at the moment. The few i have planted out are doing ok except one but i'm hoping a little TLC will bring it right. At the moment we are going through a very dry spell as it hasn't rained here for about 6 months but come summer we usually cop it by the bucket load.
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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by orchid40 on 30th September 2009, 17:35

Agreed, Margaret.
Dave I'm not very up on climbers (pardon the pun) but I think if it were me I'd be guiding the canes in the direction they need to go. It's best to do this while the canes are still young and supple.
You've caught me at my computer a few times because I've been grubbing out shrubs with roots going down to China. I had to come in for a rest occasionally!
Val

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Photos for Orchid40

Post by wedge on 30th September 2009, 20:10

Hello again. It only took me 3hrs to work out how to put some photos up. I hope i have better luck with my roses !! Hmmmm The photo of the climber against the lattice is the one that's not too happy at the moment but hopefully it will come good. As you suggested Val, i have spread a layer of manure all over the garden when i transplanted them out on Sunday. The other photos are the ones in pots that i'm yet to plant out. Can someone explain why you never replant a rose where other roses have been growing before ?? I'm curious to know why !! When you have finished grubbing out those old plants Val, i've got some more here for you to do. I think i'm going to need a dozer to get these ones out !! After i have them out, i'm going to prepare the garden for some more roses next year.
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wedge

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by Ozeboy on 30th September 2009, 21:23

Hi Dave, you have a lot of wonderful advice from our very experienced long time rose experts. I would just like you to look harder at the roses you choose to grow on the coast of central Queensland.

Firstly the beautiful roses in New Zealand are possibly in a more temperate climate than yours and grow exceptionally well. There are rose breeders world wide that are trying to expand the boundries. Some are looking at breeding snow tolerant roses for Canada, Europe and England. Our climate is hot, dry or exceptionally humid so there are breeders trying to come up with roses that will do well here, India, California etc Unfortunatly the plant labels lack information but if you select Tea, China and Noisette roses then
you won't go far wrong.

There is a very good Australian book called "Tea Roses" Old Roses for Warm Gardens.

You could probably grow some of the temperate to cool weather roses where you are but would have to spray for fungus and pests. I don't think its worth destroying your immune system over growing a few roses.


There is a rose site called "Help Me Find" that has plenty of information.


Try "Mrs. BR Cant" , "Crepuscle" , " Reve d' Or", ' G. Nabonnand' also known as "Jean Ducher", " Peace 1902" to get a feel for roses that should grow well for you.

Rose breeders roses worth looking for are Alister Clark, Brownell, McGredy and a few Australian breeders whose names escape me just now.

Best of Luck.

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by wedge on 30th September 2009, 22:07

Ozeboy, you are a wealth of information. Thanks m8 !! I'll certainly do some research before next season.
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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by orchid40 on 30th September 2009, 22:33

Hey, well done with the photos, Dave! They are all looking good! Yes the one on the trellis is a bit droopy, but it'll probably be OK.
It's true about not planting a new rose where an old one has died. I wish I could remember something more than "Sick Rose Syndrome" but I'm sure someone else will help with this one.
Thanks for the offer of more grubbing out, but no thanks! LOL
Val

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by Admin on 30th September 2009, 22:47

GDay Welcome to Rose Talk Dave... it's nice to see more northerly members popping up. Thumbsup

I would like to second everything that Bruce (Ozeboy) has said... the key to success with roses in the northern parts of Australia is careful selection. My lovely wife, Alicia, (how was that Roseman David Wink lol), has a Grandfather in Ballina who moved there from Sydney many years ago after having an extensive rose garden. Since moving to Ballina he has tried to continue his rose growing hobby but has struggled because he continues to try and grow unsuitable roses and refuses to look at anything except hybrid tea roses that just aren't suited to the conditions. So, his solution is to treat them as annuals, or at best biennials, and replace them every year or two Shocked The nurseries must love him!

The roses Bruce has mentioned are proven warm climate roses but most from the classes he has mentioned will also perform well up that way. I've visted Mackay whilst on my honeymoon 14 years ago during winter and remember it being in the mid-to-low twenties during the day. If you select roses from the list Bruce has put up you can expect them to be evergreen and flower all year round for you. These roses are not really the classically formed hybrid teas that everyone these days thinks a rose should be, but are more informal with lovely blousy flowers, that can make lovely large dense shrubs. I really love them and am grateful to the people here for introducing me to them.

Alee, who has replied to you here already, is in a good position to recommend roses to you as well as he actually lives in the Maldives, where growing roses presents huge challenges. He is growing some of the more traditional varieties but also has some older Bourbons such as 'Rose Eduard' that are proven warm climate roses.

Again, as Bruce says, it's not worth putting your health at risk for the sake of a few roses (because they WILL need chemical intervention to do well in Mackay) when you could choose more appropriate ones to begin with.

A couple of extra tips will help you along the way:

* The roses in pots against that wall will fry in the summer from a lot of reflected heat. It might be a good idea to move them out a bit.
* you can help reduce stress on these potted roses when it really heats up by burying them in the ground and spreading a layer of mulch over them. They will think they are in the ground because it is more thermally stable and their roots will be in far better shape when you plant them out. When you plant them out do so in cooler weather.
* Don't feed your newly planted roses too much at this point if they were bare rooted. Too much can actually retard the growth of new roots. Manures are usually ok though if they are mature and well decomposed.
* check out the Brindabella roses... Bruce has has some luck with them and they are advertised as being suitable for warm humid climates. I think Val had some as well.
* If some of the roses you bought are David Austin roses expect them to get much bigger than you think. In hot climates they will often be half as big to double the normally quoted size.
* the rumour of planting new roses in old rose beds is not entirely myth. I have never noticed it in any of my gardens, but many have. The theory is that old roses will develop populations of soil organisms that over the years they have become accustomed to. These include things like nematodes. When you remove the old rose and put a new one in the same spot that has not developed any adaptations to these organisms they often fail to thrive and gradually decline and die. If your old roses are as large as they you say, requiring heavy machinery to remove, then I would be more inclined to leave them there... for many reasons such as; they are obviously very old and may have some historical significance. Lots of old roses are just pulled out and discarded when they may infact be a previously (assumed) 'lost' rose and then we can never get them back again. If they are as large and as old as you say then they obviously don't mind the conditions... so maybe some remediation would be better... or maybe consider relocating them instead of pulling them out and discarding them (though you haven't mentioned discarding them so maybe you were planning to just relocate them all along). If they are old varieties that do well there you can always post images of them here to try and ID the rose, which is usually a very hard task from photos, however, we may be able to identify a class to which it belongs so you can acquire more examples of it that may also do well in your conditions. There's a lot to consider once one starts to think of all the possibilities. You could also propagate it by cuttings, for example, and raise new specimens of the old specimen is just too far gone (though you would be amazed at the regenerative powers of a rose). If it is as large and old as you say then there is a good chance it will be on its own roots too. You might be able to divide it up and make more of them too knowing that they will all grow true-to-type. They might be an old root stock too... this is also very common in old rose gardens.

Anyway... welcome aboard. I look forward to seeing many more photos of your developing addiction Smile

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by Alee on 1st October 2009, 16:28

Dave, here are some of which I have grown in 80% humidity, 30 degrees Centigrade.

David Austin
Jude the Obscure
Abraham Darby

Hybrid Tea
Black Magic
Chales De Gaulle
Mr. Lincoln
Double Delight
Neptune
Julio Iglesias
The McCartney Rose

Climbers
Don Juan
Josephs Coat

Miniature
Jeanne La Joie - miniature climber
Red Cascade - miniature climber
fiesta ruby

Bourbon and Tea
Madame Lambard
Mrs B R Cant
Monsieur Tillier
Lady Hillingdon
Rose Edward (Our National Flower, Strong fragrance)

You could also find a list of roses which are suitable for Hot and Humid climate form Weeksroses. Here's the link. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

Post by wedge on 2nd October 2009, 00:33

Thank you so much to all the folks who are helping me here....i'm just amazed !!! I will certainly be taking all of your wonderful advice onboard and know that when i get into troubles, help will be near at hand. Thank you Simon for your post...it must have taken you ages to type it all. Thanks also to Alee for his suggestions of what to plant here for next season. I really need to do some research now to find out what i'm going to buy for next year as i believe that most of the large nurseries take orders a long way in advance ?? Thank you so much to all of you !!! Gold Star Rating
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wedge

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Re: Getting started...where to begin ??

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