Latest topics
» Has anyone had a similar problem with a rose......
by Ozeboy 21st November 2017, 09:59

» Sad second year roses :(
by The Lazy Rosarian 17th November 2017, 15:40

» what do I need to do?
by eileen0 3rd November 2017, 16:41

» Feeding routines
by carmel 9th October 2017, 10:06

» Two to identify please
by LouiseJB 25th September 2017, 16:02

» rose for sale
by carmel 25th September 2017, 07:46

» Anyone ever heard of this before?
by The Lazy Rosarian 17th September 2017, 16:19

» parole
by Malnewby 14th September 2017, 18:38


Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Admin on 1st August 2009, 10:28

Here in Australia, we are at a big disadvantage when it comes to obtaining breeding stock from places like the U.S. or Europe. It's next to impossible and when the big nurseries here bring roses in they never seem to bring in the ones that might be of use to breeders. In a lot of cases it seems like the only option is to re-create the wheel! There is a new line of roses emerging in the U.S. derived from Rosa bracteata that is showing loads of potential for warm climate rose development and I think it would be a wise move to try and re-create this line here in Australia.

Rosa bracteata is a beautiful species rose found in the warm Asia-Temperate region in China (Fujian, Guizhou, Hunan, Jiangsu, Jiangxi, Yunnan, Zhejiang) and Eastern Asia (Japan - Ryukyu Islands; Taiwan)([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]). It is a large climbing rose producing white single flowers with a fragrance that has been likened to that of acetone (according to Paul barden on his [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.])! One of the best features of this rose is that it is already fully remontant and will bloom continuously all season. It has proven difficult to find ways to introduce bracteata into modern roses because a lot of the crosses didn't take, any seeds that were produced didn't germinate, or the seedlings proved to be unthrifty (Perscom Paul Barden 2009). That is until Mr Ralph Moore crossed Rosa bracteata with the old hybrid tea called 'Guinee' (available here in Australia from Mistydowns). This resulted in a seedling that went on to become 'Muriel' and represents a huge step forward as 'Muriel' has proven to be fertile and able to pass on bracteata features to its progeny. The next most significant step forward appeared when Mr Moore then crossed 'Muriel' with one his (arguably) nicest miniatures called 'Sequoia Gold'. This resulted in a beautiful rose he called 'Out of Yesteryear'. For those wanting to see this lovely rose you can see more of it here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This rose is fully remontant, and has lovely old rose form on a neat healthy shrub form, but unfortunately has no fragrance. It is reputed to be 'on the thorny side' and strikes very easily from cuttings, growing well on its own roots. From this point, and from 'Muriel', hybridisers like Paul Barden are now making enormous progress producing roses with superior architecture, old bloom form and superior disease resistance... something I think we should be taking note of here!

One could attempt to recreate the above steps to develop their own fertile starting points but there is a rose here that might be worth looking at already. It's called 'Many Happy Returns' (see here for Australian distributors: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Viru and Girija Viraraghavan advised me that this rose was descended from 'The Mermaid', itself a first generation cross with Rosa bracteata. 'The Mermaid' has proven uncooperative for hybridisers with very few descendants. This rose, however, seems to be quite fertile and has many features that could be used to incorporate into Australian roses. 'The Mermaid' is one of the most massive roses ever bred and might still be worth using. I think putting it with some Teas or Chinas to see what it can produce mighht be interesting. I'd love to do an 'elephant x flea' type cross and put it with some of Mr Moore's miniatures to see if 'The Mermaid' can be tamed.

I've bought Rosa bracteata and 'Many Happy Returns' to use this season (if they flower in their first season), and was thinking it would be fun to both try and re-create a 'Muriel' type line and also use 'Many Happy Returns' and 'The Mermaid'. I was thinking I might take bracteata pollen and put in onto 'Ebb Tide' to do this first step to see if that works. 'Ebb Tide' is reputed to be fertile both ways and has been successful in passing on the lovely deep purple colour in many crosses. I was also thinking of putting bracteata pollen onto a DA like 'Abraham Darby' to pave the way to an 'Out of Yesteryear' type of rose taking advantage of 'Abraham Darby's' fertility.

I also wonder how bracteata hybrids would go with Teas such as Mons. Tillier and would like to try this one at some stage too.

One of the exciting (for me) new line of roses that have been produced recently by Mr Moore is hybrid bracteata miniatures. These have a wonderful look to them and might be just the thing that miniatures need here in Australia to make them more suited as well.

Can't wait for this hybridising season to roll on What a Face


Last edited by Simon on 1st August 2009, 22:56; edited 5 times in total

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Bemo on 1st August 2009, 22:30

Simon, thank you for your essay, seems that W.v. Fleet has forgotten to mention 'Rosa Bracteata' in his article about breeding with wild roses. 'Out of Yesteryear' is really a great rose, I like it very much . love

I had a look at the web about 'RB', but did'nt (yet) find an offer, will be O/S also here. 'Mermaid' will possibly available in the autumn. I will mark this rose for future crossings.

What a coincidence that you are planning to breed with 'AD' too. I used 'AD' as mother- and seed plant this season. As it looks at the moment, hips are ripening from 'AD'x 'Sympathie' in both directions. An attempt with the young 'Cherry breeze' failed Crying or Very sad

have a good sunday

Bernhard

Bemo

Number of posts : 465
Location : Germany
Registration date : 2009-01-31

http://rosebreeding.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Admin on 1st August 2009, 22:44

G'Day Bemo Smile 'Mermaid' is a true giant so I hope you have a lot of room to let it spread Shocked

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Admin on 1st August 2009, 23:31

I also think, Bemo, that if using bracteata one should REALLY think outside the square about which way to go with it and avoid using the same old modern crap HT and floribunda. The trick seems to be to first try it on everything to try and get some fertility happening and then be much mroe selective about what you put on it.

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Bemo on 2nd August 2009, 00:03

Simon wrote:G'Day Bemo Smile 'Mermaid' is a true giant so I hope you have a lot of room to let it spread Shocked
Never mind, I can make a present from it to the '5 o'clock beer garden' and visit it more often in the season (to harvest pollen) drunken Very Happy

Bemo

Number of posts : 465
Location : Germany
Registration date : 2009-01-31

http://rosebreeding.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Bemo on 3rd August 2009, 23:10

I had a closer look on both, bracteata and Mairmaid, yestereday and found out that they will probably not survive the first winter in our garden due to the poor winterhardiness, so it makes not sense for me, it's too bad, will strike through it on my list. Crying or Very sad

cheers Bernhard

Bemo

Number of posts : 465
Location : Germany
Registration date : 2009-01-31

http://rosebreeding.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Admin on 3rd August 2009, 23:24

Yep... that's why I want to use them here Thumbsup... they are warm climate specialists Smile

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Ozeboy on 6th August 2009, 20:41

Simon, your nursery must sell the same roses as mine as your description,

SAME OLD CRAP HT AND FLORABUNDA is a good description of roses sold here in Sydney.

As I have had problems posting am using this post as a trial.

Ozeboy

Number of posts : 1671
Location : Glenorie, Sydney NSW
Registration date : 2008-12-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 6th August 2009, 20:48

All your other posts have come through ok.
avatar
The Lazy Rosarian

Number of posts : 5151
Age : 64
Location : Mudgee, NSW, Australia
Registration date : 2009-01-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Admin on 6th August 2009, 21:00

I like the flowers on most modern roses.. I just think it would be a shame to not do something completely original and out of the square with material that is so new and which promises so much. That's why I say I believe one should think very hard about what they really want to achieve and what to put with them and avoid going down the line of making a quick buck and make the same mistakes that have already been made and instead try very hard to make something that will stand the test of time.

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Admin on 9th August 2009, 20:17

Tell you what though... bracteata is one thorny rose!!! I don't think a rose has EVER spilt as much of my blood as mine did today!!! And it's only brand new with little stubs for stems... imagine what it's going to be like when it's a fully grown monster Injured

I'm going to name my first seedling from it 'Barbed Wire' and sell it to a security firm.

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Bracteata... following lessons learnt o/s

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum