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Rootstock Cuttings

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Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Billndee on 26th May 2009, 08:08

I was going to leave it until closer to springtime but I had a re-think. So I collected up all the rootstock suckers that were disgracing the garden yesterday and struck them.
I hope they will make roots over winter so I can plant them out in the spring ready for budding in the summer. I hope. Hmmmm
I have put them in a bucket in moist perlite with a clear plastic bag over the lot. I gave them a spray of fungicide too. So they are getting plenty of light and humidity and all the warmth that is possible over winter.
If this succeeds I will do future own-root cuttings the same way.
Last season's cuttings all failed so I really do need to improve my game!

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Guest on 26th May 2009, 09:18

are these the suckers from your roses in the garden Dee, sounds like I cold try the same thing perhaps Suspect I have a few roses that are for ever sending out suckers Creepy

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Billndee on 26th May 2009, 17:09

Yes they are Thee. I have a row of Freisia standards that send up suckers regularly. I pull them off and strike them. I try to pick out all the shooting eyes on the end bit that I bury because that is where more suckers come from, and I cut off the very bottom end too for the same reason. I pull all the leaves off except a few at the top, then plant it.
I have got myself quite a few free standard roses by doing this. And it is fun too when it actually works!
BTW I put my plastic covered bucket of cuttings in the poly house to keep it extra warm. I forgot to say that in the first post.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Guest on 27th May 2009, 10:52

How long to you let the sucker grow before you do this ??

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Billndee on 27th May 2009, 16:59

I have struck suckers anywhere from very short to two metres. Whatever the sucker grows to is ok by me. I do head it back a little so the end won't wilt when I strike it.
I use the short ones to bud bush roses on to and the longer ones to bud at standard height. After they have struck and the time has come to bud them, I measure from the ground up the stem to the height I want the bud, say 60cm, 90cm or 1metre. It doesn't matter how far below the head of the sucker where the bud goes.
I am experimenting also with a Dr Huey sucker that came up on the root of a rose that is going to get the shovel. I have budded a ground cover onto the top at about 2 metres high, leaving some leaves of Dr Huey at the top to contimue drawing the sap. When it goes dormant in a month or so I will dig it up and chop off the old rose! If it takes I will need a rose ring and pole to keep it straight.
I also read an idea Simon gave a link to that I would like to try. Leave the sucker on the bush that it has risen from and bud the same bush back onto it thus making a bushier rose bush. Seems a good idea to me.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Admin on 27th May 2009, 20:50

Dee... you know that pink iceberg graft you saw here, on the long can on the multiflora bush? I cut into the base of that stem and wrapped it in moist sphagnum moss and tied it up in plastic... left it a few weeks and it has sent out roots. I've cut it of and planted it where I wanted it and strapped it to a star picket so it doesn't swing around in the wind. So far so good *taps head*. Don't think I will do it like this again though... too much double handling and hoping the budded portion strikes later on. I lost one of my gigantea grafts like this and another, whose name escapes me, from the cuttings you sent up, so will just concentrate on either stenting or budding onto struck cuttings as you are doing.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Billndee on 27th May 2009, 22:23

"hoping the budded portion strikes later on"
Yes, that is always the risk isn't it. Shocked It is always a time of trepidation when springtime comes around and it is time to cut the head off the rootstock just above that tiny wrapped-up bud. Often for me that tiny bud looks dead so I am always surprised when a few weeks later little leaves pop out of it and it grows into a beautiful strong plant! Mexican Wave
ATM I have about 5 each of Lilian Austin and Brass Band budded onto standard stocks. They have been sitting there since the summer, the buds wrapped in plastic budding tape. It is a long wait until next spring to see if they are alive.
For me it is a 2 year process from striking the rootstock to seeing the bud "take". Nurserymen are able to do it in lesser time I believe but I don't know how they do it. scratch

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 28th May 2009, 06:47

Dee, when I was at the rose nursery, we would cut all the rootstock(understock) in Autumn/Winter, de-eye them, leaving 2 eyes on them, place in styrofoam boxes for a few weeks so they would callus then place them in the field till very late spring, if not summer so they had growth on top and bottom, ( the soil needs to be around 14degrees or better for most plants to grow, so I was told) Then we would get them budded from October onwards. The tops (those 2 eyes that were left) are cut off around 21 to 28 days from budding date depending on variety. From there they are left to grow the rest of spring and summer, dug in the winter, when ever you call winter, hope this give s you some idea on the commercial side of roses, it can be done at home this way, I am about to start mine this weekend, I cut the briar, Carole de-eyes it.
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Admin on 28th May 2009, 17:13

David... have you ever performed stents? The ones I did as a test seem to be doing pretty well so far... so making the cutting and doing the bud at the same time seems to save a lot of time and effort. I don't think I'd do it if I didn't have the parent bush however... too many what ifs... but so far I think they look pretty good.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 28th May 2009, 20:02

Simple answer NO, have looked at the idea. I need more pictures or drawings. I have it in my head, but can't visualize it, on a plant. The best I can come up with is you place the chosen rose on an understock that is not rooted or callused. From this point it gets a bit blurred. What keeps the 2 alive till the bud shoots and/or the rootstock has roots. then we need time of year or a warm environment for all of this to work, Simon no doubt you have the answer, what does the other 51 or so registered members think and all their replies would be appreciated, David.
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Billndee on 28th May 2009, 22:10

David, in between you and Simon nattering about stenting I want to pick up on the process you used at the nursery to grow roses.
First of all, what is the reason for leaving the cutting in the air to callus? Doesn't the cutting do that anyway when it is planted?
Next Q: What % of success did you have in strike rate for the root stocks, and what % of success did you have with the budding?
I would like to shorten the time I take to get a finished rose so I am keen to use your method.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 29th May 2009, 06:51

Dee, not sure these words come from "leaving the cutting in the air to callus", I can't find it in my post. If you have the time or are inclined we could talk it through tonight in the chat room, (Simon might read this and join in), if this suits you Dee is sometime after 8pm ok, (Simon has family things) would be rude to leave him out. To all members if this goes ahead why not join in.
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Billndee on 29th May 2009, 09:00

"place in styrofoam boxes for a few weeks so they would callus"
Maybe I assumed the cuttings are laying down in a box with nothing around them. Did you mean they are planted in a medium David?

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 29th May 2009, 09:33

No, sorry, again, if you can get the tall broccoli boxes with lids on, we used to place damp paper on the bottom then place the rootstock up side down, so the bottom is at the top, so the leaves stay dormant and the part that we want to callus is near the warmest so it can callus, again some damp paper of the the stock and place lid on, hope this explains a bit better, Embarassed I seem to be using this a lot lately.
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Ozeboy on 29th May 2009, 13:08

Billndee, patch or chip budding was proven superior to T bidding during CSIRO trials, more Sion growth. I chip bud for that reason, also find it better when working at the end of the season because the wood can be left on if the bud is cut thin.
Check your buds at 4 weeks and if still green they should be OK
Brown buds have not taken, rootstock can be reused.
Soft green new rootstock is better left until hardened, ideally use stocks grown in summer 2009 for cutting and striking in August 2010 and January 2010. Growth left longer will grow annoying hard long laterals.
After cutting rootstocks in January run the tractor slasher over the mother plants or just cut them off. The new summer growth will be ideal for next year.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 1st June 2009, 22:00

Dee, have I explained the way we did it "OK" this time or so far.
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by rosemeadow on 7th June 2009, 22:24

Thanks for the above post Ozeboy, I will also read again the imformation you sent me and make a plan of what I need to do. My most important thing I need to do this Spring/Summer is to keep my newly planted roses alive. Down the track I am determined to learn to patch or chip bud so I will definitely come visit you, perhaps next Autumn if that suited you.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by IanM on 29th November 2010, 23:08

Maybe it is our Qld climate, but I find the callous method does not work for me. Generally the faster I can get the cuttings in the better. I give the ends a good soak in Clonex, place cuttings into a moist mix, mist, then cover with plastic, mist again before sealing up. Keep in the coolest, shadiest place I can find until roots form.
I would love to learn how to bud roses. I tried this several times in the past but all attempts were dismal failures. I suspect it is a bit too fiddly for my clumsy fingers, so I prefer cuttings and have recently tried the old-fashioned grafting method using a grafting tool. Not sure how successful this will be, but all of my grafts still look healthy. No shrivelling which is a good sign. Smile
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Ozeboy on 12th December 2010, 11:11

Ian, I get Multiflora cuttings to callus within 10 days from cutting off the mother plant, rooted and growing within 5 weeks. These are left 3 to4 months than budded or left until the following budding time.
ie Rootstocks planted in August are budded in November or can be left until April. Callusing in winter is slower due to the cooler temps.

I don't grow roses on their own roots as it is too slow and success rate is not a commercial proposition. At nearly 80 I am in a hurry for I don't know how much time I have left. I'm hoping for another 20 years to equal my mothers age.

I have chip budded roses in April, activated the buds in August and have an 8 feet long cane on the rose by December.
You can plant Multiflora understocks any time of the year but for best results timeing and age of the wood is very important.

My success rate is around 85% to 90 % with these cuttings for I don't dig, because it is too hard for me. If younger I could get better results through better preparation. Budding success this season was very good at 98% success. Sometimes I receive budwood from people wanting custom budding done and the success rate is lower due to incorrect buds selected and length of time in transport.

Should you wish to give budding a try then between Christmas and New Year get about 100 or 200 Multiflora cuttings. These are best if new growth that has hardened off, new soft or old growth is not suitable. Cut into 9 inch lengths because you will need 4" in the ground, 3" of stem to bud onto and 2 inches at the top with 2 buds to grow tops. Cuts are made at 90 degrees to the cane halfway between buds or a little closer to a bud. Do not remove any buds at this stage.

Callousing can be done by placing the them in between two hessian Potato sacks that have been hosed then left to drain. Keep these moist but not over wet, they can be sprayed daily to keep them damp but not dripping wet. Cuttings should be damp but not showing any globules of water or Damping off problems will ocur. I keep these on the cement floor in the garage or on an earthern floor in an old packing shed. A darkened area is most suitable. This method is pretty universal in warmer climates where you live or in Sydney. David ( Roseman) has a good method for very cool climates or winter where bottom warmth is benificial to get them callousing.
In David's case top warmth at the bottom.

After 10 days when sufficient callousing has appeared remove all eyes or shoots except the top two then plant cuttings which should have good top growth and roots in 5 weeks. I use some seaweed to water them from planting and up to 8 weeks. This is probably an un' necessary expense that makes me feel good but does little for the plants.

Congratulations you will now have understocks suitable for budding next April. Do have a try and don't be put off by some who make budding appear like they are making magic.

Rosa Multiflora is the most under rated rose I know of, just wonderful.

Best of luck Ian.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Admin on 12th December 2010, 11:24

Ian, I also find callousing less reliable in warmer weather. One trick I've been using lately is to bag them and put them in the fruit crisper in teh fridge. they still callous quickly and moulds don't get a foothold as quickly. I think it is a race against moulds getting a strangle-hold and the cuttings getting roots/callous so they can resist the moulds more effectively.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by IanM on 12th December 2010, 11:48

Thanks Bruce and Simon,

Thank you for the tips. I will give them a go, but I have tried those methods before and results have always been dismal.
When it comes to budding, I am the kind of person who needs to actually see something done before I can do it myself. I have tried to follow written instructions many times in the past but all of my attempts have failed. I suspect this is why I've always stuck with cuttings as it is the only method I know that works for me most of the time.
Also I have Parkinsons Disease which means I have limited fine motor skills. So a big, chunky cutting always works best for me! Smile I find budding too fiddly. I tried grafting recently, but all of my grafts failed. I'm not sure what I did wrong, as once again, I followed the instructions to the letter.
When I lived in Toowoomba, there was something about the altitude and mild climate that caused roses to take root easily and I also had no trouble germinating seed. I can recall tipping some spent roses out of a vase into a garden bed one time, only to find they had taken root a few weeks later! The soil was that volcanic red stuff and as soft as talcum powder. Roses would take root if you just shoved a stick in the ground.
Now I live further west where conditions are a lot drier and the temps more extreme, I have fewer successes. So maybe some of those callousing methods may work here. I'll give them a try.
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Admin on 12th December 2010, 12:58

I use to love going to Towoomba... especially in mid-spring-early summer when the roses where out. It seemed back then that every house had a climbing Lorraine Lee growing... much like Armidale seemed to me. I lived in Moree for 5 years in the early 90's and remember fondly that between Toowoomba, Tamworth, and Armidale therose fanatic would be very satisfied indead.

Down here, the soil is red lateritic soil too and roses often will strike if I just stick them in the ground, but only in the cooler months when we get our rainfall. I found this youtube video on chip budding that I followed to exactly with roses last year and had good success with it. Like you I like to be able to see it to do it properly. I have found it gives a very nice join that is quick and easy to do. The resulting grafts don't shoot straight away but after winter they took off strongly before any of the T-grafts which are only just taking off now.



EDIT: These are the first ones I had ever tried. They all took and are growing away nicely. I'd really like to sacrifice one and dissect it to see how the union looks when it matures more.

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This T-bud was done at the same time. I forget which variety it is.

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Last edited by Simon on 12th December 2010, 19:14; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by IanM on 12th December 2010, 16:03

Thanks Simon, I'm amazed by this. Smile
Bruce, there is a form of Rosa canina that I sent to a rose grower in Sydney some years back. He swears by them. The canes are almost thornless and feel like plastic. It grows about 60km SW of where I live.
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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Admin on 12th December 2010, 21:07

Bruce sent me a grafted 'Don Juan' earlier this year and I've looked at his grafts carefully... I know they are like a chip bud but I can't see clearly just how he does it... but gee they look good and the scion has shot away very strongly... if you are going to learn from someone he's probably the best at it I've seen.

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Re: Rootstock Cuttings

Post by Ozeboy on 12th December 2010, 22:42

Simon, I am pleased DJ is doing well, it must like your soil and climate. Oh, forgot the experienced TLC.

That one is propagated the slow way, the bud has had 2 years to callus so am pretty sure you won't have a blow off on that one.

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