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This was unexpected

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This was unexpected

Post by AutumnDamask on 24th October 2015, 10:36

Hmmmm.
Walked past my 'Princesse de Monaco' yesterday and noticed this bud. The only bud on the bush at present so I couldn't compare to anything but I'm thinking... "this isn't normally so yellow" ?????
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by Alya on 24th October 2015, 12:42

If it is the first bud during this season or if I cut the flowers for vase from almost the very bottom thus giving the bush a hard pruning during the growing season and subsequently if it is the first bud after a long 3 to 4 weeks of induced doormant period my roses behave the same as your 'Princesse de Monaco'.

By the way your climbers look magnificient.

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Re: This was unexpected

Post by NEILMRITCHIE on 24th October 2015, 12:49

AutumnDamask wrote:Hmmmm.
Walked past my 'Princesse de Monaco' yesterday and noticed this bud. The only bud on the bush at present so I couldn't compare to anything but I'm thinking... "this isn't normally so yellow" ?????
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Your climbers look awesome AutumnDamask. Could you please give me their names?

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Re: This was unexpected

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 24th October 2015, 17:08

Wendy has been  'Merry' Loopy , only mucking around Wendy, in all seriousness have you got any "plants" that you could bud this onto, to the best of my knowledge "she" has no "sports. If you go to HMF it will give parentage, this might be a clue of the colour background.
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by AutumnDamask on 24th October 2015, 18:42

Of course I broke the bloom off when I was trying to shake an earwig out of it... Rolling Eyes Am thinking I will just watch it.... the bloom is in a vase and is opening up. Creamier version but may just be a one-off.
I don't think weather is involved - hasn't been that big variation in temps?
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by AutumnDamask on 24th October 2015, 18:46

NEILMRITCHIE wrote:
AutumnDamask wrote:Hmmmm.
Walked past my 'Princesse de Monaco' yesterday and noticed this bud. The only bud on the bush at present so I couldn't compare to anything but I'm thinking... "this isn't normally so yellow" ?????

Your climbers look awesome AutumnDamask. Could you please give me their names?

'Lamarque' and 'Pierre de Ronsard'
Smile
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by AutumnDamask on 24th October 2015, 18:47

Alya wrote:If it is the first bud during this season or if I cut the flowers for vase from almost the very bottom thus giving the bush a hard pruning during the growing season and subsequently if it is the first bud after a long 3 to 4 weeks of induced doormant period my roses behave the same as your 'Princesse de Monaco'.

By the way your climbers look magnificient.

Ahhh... yeah, I was wondering if it was in the "range of normal". Just hadn't had my bush do it before. It's the last bud of the first spring flush.

And thanks, about the climbers. Smile
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by Ausrose on 27th October 2015, 20:01

It could be a sport.

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Re: This was unexpected

Post by Ausrose on 27th October 2015, 20:09


  • WHAT IS A SPORT OF A ROSE?
    Have you ever discovered a rose bloom that is different to the others on the same bush? There are many different reasons why this can occur. The most common cause of such changes is what is called spontaneous plant mutation. When associated with roses it is called a sport though rare in occurrence, sports occur in all classes of roses.  In the majority of cases the difference in the growth habit or bloom colour to the parent plant.

    Sports are either stable or unstable. In other words when reproduced from the original mutated cane by either cutting or a budded plant the plants either retain the mutated form (stable) or change back to the original plant (unstable). There are many causes of mutations in plants, many of them still unknown. Common ones are cold temperatures, viruses, X-rays, and UV radiation; in the lab or greenhouse, certain chemicals like colchicines (a plant derivative used to treat gout) can also create genetic mutations.

    It is generally accepted sports are not as good or as healthy as the parent and because of this many sports have disappeared over time. Those that survive more than often they are as good as the parent and in rare cases better. One of the oldest known sports is ‘Rosa Mundi’ being a sport of the red gallica R. gallica officinalis (Apothecary’s Rose). Some roses sport better than others. The rose recognised, as having sported the most is the French bred Hybrid Tea Ophelia (1912) that has forty plus sports registered.

    Many sports beget more sports the most notable in Australia being the Iceberg line that began in 1995 when Tasmanian Rosarian Lilia Weatherly discovered a light pink blend flower on one her bushes in a bed of the famous Iceberg this was propagated and became know as Blushing Pink Iceberg. In 1999 a plant of Blushing Pink Iceberg sported a darker pink bloom with a cream centre and light pink stamens and this became known as Brilliant Pink Iceberg. Then Brilliant Pink Iceberg sported Burgundy Iceberg. All these roses are commercially available in Australia.

    A well-known rose that has produced two stable sports in Australia is the exhibition red rose Kardinal. In 1994 Les Strathford discovered the rose registered as Pink Kardinal while in 1997 Graeme Catt discovered an orange version that now sells as Happy Anniversary. Other sports available commercially in Australia include Louisa Jane (Baronne E de Rothschild), Louisa Francis (Louisa Jane), Bridget’s Joy (Coral Fiesta), Duette (Duet) and Chicargo Peace (Peace). Those climbing roses whose names start with 'Climbing' or 'Cl' are sports of the bush varieties of the same name. They generally have a heavy spring bloom followed by scattered blooms throughout the season. Thomas for Roses in South Australia have catalogued well over 100 varieties of climbing rose which includes numerous climbing sports some of these being: - Angel Face, Blue Moon, Double Delight, Gold Bunny, Iceberg, Joyfulness and Queen Elizabeth.

    If you find a bloom different to other blooms on one of your bushes the first thing you should do is mark it. A common method is to tie a piece of wool, string or ribbon around the cane. An experienced rosarian you will know there are two ways the sport can be reproduced. The most reliable d being is to take buds from the cane carrying the sport and graft them onto rootstock or you can take cuttings and grow them in a medium, coarse river sand is an option. If you are an inexperienced rosarian and want to proceed with the process of reproducing the sport you should contact a rose society consulting rosarian and explain the situation. Lists of consulting Rosarians can be found in various rose society publications or on the Internet.

    Before the production of a sport is commenced it is a good idea to check if the bloom is in fact a new sport not a sport that has reverted to the original. For example if a red bloom is found on a bush of the Belle Rouge sport Red Intuition the bloom has reverted to Belle Rouge and it isn’t a sport at all. Once it is established the bloom is a sport and it has been propagated the next step is to check whether it is stable, vigorous and disease resistant. Once this has been established the rose is ready to be considered for production either private or commercial.


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Re: This was unexpected

Post by muscovyduckling on 3rd November 2015, 00:11

Bah, who cares about the Princesses? LOOK AT THAT LAMARQUE!!!!
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by AutumnDamask on 3rd November 2015, 06:27

roflmao
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by NEILMRITCHIE on 4th November 2015, 14:50

AutumnDamask wrote:roflmao

Does your Lamarque bloom continuously? I planted mine last year and it has got it's first flush now!

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Re: This was unexpected

Post by AutumnDamask on 5th November 2015, 10:34

It has several "flushes". Smile
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by NEILMRITCHIE on 5th November 2015, 12:21

AutumnDamask wrote:It has several "flushes". Smile

Thanks Very Happy

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Re: This was unexpected

Post by Alya on 9th November 2015, 00:36

Ausrose wrote:
[*]WHAT IS A SPORT OF A ROSE?
....
Many sports beget more sports the most notable in Australia being the Iceberg line that began in 1995 when Tasmanian Rosarian Lilia Weatherly discovered a light pink blend flower on one her bushes in a bed of the famous Iceberg this was propagated and became know as Blushing Pink Iceberg. In 1999 a plant of Blushing Pink Iceberg sported a darker pink bloom with a cream centre and light pink stamens and this became known as Brilliant Pink Iceberg. Then Brilliant Pink Iceberg sported Burgundy Iceberg. All these roses are commercially available in Australia.
...


[*]

How do I decide the pink Iceberg I have got is a brilliant or blushing Pink iceberg?
I saw a pink Iceberg at RNRS gardens which had pure white flowers as well as pink ones on the same stem. Then I have  a blushing or brilliant Iceberg and I do not know which one I have. The one I have got has been consistent in producing blushing or brilliant Iceberg flowers which have dark towards maroonish pink  and very shiny petals. I have the white  and the climber versions and they have been consistent with the colours.


......
If you find a bloom different to other blooms on one of your bushes the first thing you should do is mark it. A common method is to tie a piece of wool, string or ribbon around the cane. An experienced rosarian you will know there are two ways the sport can be reproduced. The most reliable d being is to take buds from the cane carrying the sport and graft them onto rootstock or you can take cuttings and grow them in a medium, coarse river sand is an option. If you are an inexperienced rosarian and want to proceed with the process of reproducing the sport you should contact a rose society consulting rosarian and explain the situation. Lists of consulting Rosarians can be found in various rose society publications or on the Internet.
...

With us here in the UK it is now very early winter but the roses are still flowering with more darker colours beacuse of the intensity of the sun solar radiation etc.  Some roses are producing quite different and unexpected coloured flowers. I always thought perhaps it would be wise to try to graft and see if they are going to be a a different sport and carry on being so. After reading your article I think it is worth trying to graft and see if it will work. Therefore it is worth knowing what type of grafting will suit almost all  scions rootstocs that have uneven thickness etc.
Which type of grafting is almost fool proof?
Which type of grafting would work for any time of the year?
Would cleft grafting do?

I read that so long as you line the cambiums of the scion and the rootstock on one side perfectly the grafting will work and don't worry if the other side did not line correctly. Is this correct? I read that this way of grafting has been 100% success with exotic fruits, rubber tree like plants in the far east countries like Cambodia and so on. I have no idea if this will be OK for the roses. Has anybody tried? What is your experience?

By the way, thank you for this information. It has been very educational.

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Re: This was unexpected

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 10th November 2015, 06:42

Here are the four "Icebergs" Ayla,

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The white is the original, the rest are sports. Blushing Pink and Brilliant Pink are from the same lady, which lives in Tasmania, an Island south of Australia, similar climates to yours. So the deeper colour at this time of year in your climate is how she found the these two. This is what I understand. If I have flowers on my white one in late Autumn or early Winter they have a "tinge" of pink thru them, just not evident as 'Blushing Pink', You might be lucky and they will stay true to the deeper colour you have at present if budded/grafted.
As the bark on the rootstock most probably won't lift to "Tee Bud" I would use the cleft type of budding. If you have lots of wood that is producing the "odd" colours you could use some of your existing plants to "host" them over Winter. This would mean trying to get the bark to lift on parts of the rose you will not prune this Winter. This will need to be done using the "Tee" method. These will have to be taped so the buds do not get frosted over Winter. This will get you started Alya. Let me know if you need some more info.

P.S. Did you get my email about seeds ?
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Re: This was unexpected

Post by Alya on 11th November 2015, 03:30

David,
I am going to try Harmonie and Drama Queen onto Mutabilis and Bengal Crimson and Laxa (as the hosts). Mutabilis and Bengal Crimson have been flowering and producing new shoots almost 12 months of the year in my garden so perhaps there is a chance to get the budding work for dummies like me. Then cover the stem and the budded are with a large emty plastic see through juce/milk bottle with the top and bottom cut off and cover bottle with flece or something similar in the icy freezing cold.  If the budding works on Mutabilis and Bengal Crimson then I should do air rooting and cut the budded stem off the mother plant to save both. Then wait and see.


P.S. I got your last email. I shall start another topic and put the pictures of the hips for you to see and comment on.

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Re: This was unexpected

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