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Gardenia ph levels

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Gardenia ph levels

Post by paulh on 30th December 2014, 16:03

Some advice please. I have a large Gardenia in a huge pot, I am getting lots of bright yellows leaves then the drop off. I checked the ph and it is at 8. Apparently the need a ph of around 4.5 to 5, so my question is what can drop the ph in 3 points quickly? In mind is different sulphurs, iron and aluminium. I have tried epsom salts but to no avail. Ta peoples
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by Ausrose on 30th December 2014, 16:24

Paul apply apple  cider vinegar at the rate of 5ml per litre of water weekly. The reduction will be only temporarily.

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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 30th December 2014, 17:05

Repot to an Azalea/gardenia specific mix, and if it was me I would prune prior to transplanting
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by neptune on 30th December 2014, 17:12

Doug, you took the words right out of my mouth.....

I would start by going to Bunnings and getting a packet of sulphur. Then place it on the surface and turn it over so that the soil can do its work on it. With the yellow sulphur it takes it time to dissolve because most of it is elemental. There is no sulphur that dissolves completely in water. Then water in with your 'CHEAP" apple vinegar water
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by AutumnDamask on 30th December 2014, 18:38

The Lazy Rosarian wrote:Repot to an Azalea/gardenia specific mix, and if it was me I would prune prior to transplanting

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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by neptune on 30th December 2014, 19:04

AutumnDamask wrote:
The Lazy Rosarian wrote:Repot to an Azalea/gardenia specific mix, and if it was me I would prune prior to transplanting


This is a good idea, but the downfall is that the acidic soil slowly changes back towards a neutral ph since it is within a pot......then you either have to change the soil or put an additive into it.....
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 30th December 2014, 19:56

What things create Acid soils or Alkaline soils, lets looks look at Hydrangeas
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by AutumnDamask on 30th December 2014, 20:31

neptune wrote:
AutumnDamask wrote:
The Lazy Rosarian wrote:Repot to an Azalea/gardenia specific mix, and if it was me I would prune prior to transplanting


This is a good idea, but the downfall is that the acidic soil slowly changes back towards a neutral ph since it is within a pot......then you either have to change the soil or put an additive into it.....

scratch
Not necessarily? Are you suggesting that the pot itself will cause the rise in pH?
Eg. I have an azalea that was potted into a large glazed pot with ordinary potting mix (probably Debco Terracota and Tub) several years ago and this year was the best it has ever been. I presume it rather desperately needs fresh potting mix but I just gave it Neutrog Orchid food instead.

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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by AutumnDamask on 30th December 2014, 20:34

(Oh, and to reduce pH -- take a leaf from the aquarium world and put some peat moss on top of your potting mix and only water the plant with rainwater.)
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by neptune on 30th December 2014, 21:26

Sorry if I am wrong, ...I naturally assume that with a water of neutral ph, it with slowly dilute the acidic soil over time towards a neutral state......

Over here we have what they call "Yellow Chromosol" soil and I am always fighting ph levels over 8......and bore water that passes thru limestone to add to my discomfort......
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by AutumnDamask on 30th December 2014, 21:36

If the soil/potting mix is made up of organic matter it will naturally want to head towards acidic. If you're watering with higher pH water though it's going to keep the soil/potting mix pH up.

We're on granite here with a deficiency in calcium. Our rainwater is 5-5.5pH
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by paulh on 31st December 2014, 01:05

Thanks peoples, some good suggestions. Now the said Gardenia is quite large, It is always looking healthy with good foliage cover, but as said constantly gets bright yellow leaves. As for using vinegar, I have used it before on my roses, which I feel the results were disappointing, it seemed to have an adverse effect. I came accross a web site that was negetive in using vinegar, they stated one should resist the urge to add vinegar to your soil. Vinegar will lower the pH of the soil immediately, but the change happens too radically, disappears too quickly, and kills off beneficial soil organisms.[13] Stay away from vinegar unless you're okay with the possibility of your plants dying. Douse unwanted grass and weeds along walkways and driveways with vinegar to naturally and effectively destroy them.

So has anybody used Aluminum Sulfate, apparently is will lower ph quickly, which is what I want, but to much can be toxic.
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by Ausrose on 31st December 2014, 04:05

Paul I was vitaly interested in your comments about vinegar a question I would ask are you talking about vinegars in general as my research came up with Apple Cider Vinegar specifically. Is there a difference in vinegars. If you indicate the sources of your information as I would like to look into further as I'm about to release an article on pH I have written and in it includes the use of  Apple Cider Vinegar to reduce the pH. From what you have said about vinegars use and if Apple Cider Vinegar has similar effects as other vinegars  I should remove it from the article before it is published as I don' want give Rosarians  bad information.

What you have said about your experiences and what your research has come up with makes sense particularly the killing of beneficial microbes and I take your point about using vinegar based weedicides.

Thanks for your input. Perhaps we should be compiling an article on why not to use vinegar to reduce pH because of its side effects.

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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 31st December 2014, 06:37

Not to thread jack for to long, that Azalea is to die for Wendy
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 31st December 2014, 06:41

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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by AutumnDamask on 31st December 2014, 08:32

What's the pH of the water you are using, Paul? If you are like John and having to use a higher pH water (bore water etc) then changing to rainwater/RO water might be useful. If you don't have either of those things then have some large buckets set up where you can soak peat moss in them to lower the pH to better levels. If your water is a higher pH then the surface area in the pot will be a higher pH than lower down since the top part gets the water every day in greatest amounts.
With the info on the results of vinegar I'd be wary to try and drop the soil pH fast by any means.

In the meantime, it's possible an iron deficiency is present due to the higher pH. This may correct itself once the pH is altered and normal fertiliser is used. You could try iron sulfate.
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by dannyboy on 31st December 2014, 11:33

Paul I have noticed with Gardenias you have to feed them well or they get those yellow leafs.I give mine rose food not organic one and works a treat.

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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 31st December 2014, 12:27

Wendy could you tell me where you got the info on the peat moss, very interesting ?
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by neptune on 31st December 2014, 12:28

The Lazy Rosarian wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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The one thing I notice with these two articles is that they tell you how much to mix, but they don't tell you anything about what ph that ratio gives. It doesn't have a starting ph or a finishing ph and how do they test the ph to get the value you want........
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 31st December 2014, 17:57

Good point John, more research
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by AutumnDamask on 31st December 2014, 18:12

David - peat moss is used in the aquarium industry as a more natural way of reducing the pH of water. It will release tannins so expect the water to become brown.
Am not exactly sure of the chemical pathways involved.
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by Ausrose on 31st December 2014, 18:45

Paul when you got poor results when you put vinegar on your roses was it Apple Cider Vinegar?





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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by paulh on 31st December 2014, 23:59

[quote="Ausrose"]Paul when you got poor results when you put vinegar on your roses was it Apple Cider Vinegar?

Thanks Ausrose, yes it was Apple Cider Vinegar,


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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by paulh on 1st January 2015, 00:00

dannyboy wrote:Paul I have noticed with Gardenias you have to feed them well or they get those yellow leafs.I give mine rose food not organic one and works a treat.

Thanks Dannyboy, I to feed them with roses food, the last lot was Munns Betta Bloom
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

Post by paulh on 1st January 2015, 00:05

AutumnDamask wrote:What's the pH of the water you are using, Paul? If you are like John and having to use a higher pH water (bore water etc) then changing to rainwater/RO water might be useful. If you don't have either of those things then have some large buckets set up where you can soak peat moss in them to lower the pH to better levels. If your water is a higher pH then the surface area in the pot will be a higher pH than lower down since the top part gets the water every day in greatest amounts.
With the info on the results of vinegar I'd be wary to try and drop the soil pH fast by any means.

In the meantime, it's possible an iron deficiency is present due to the higher pH. This may correct itself once the pH is altered and normal fertiliser is used. You could try iron sulfate.

Thanks AutumnDamask, I am using scheme water, so I'm not sure of the ph levels, I've heard of top dressing with peat moss, unfortunately with the arrival of our new Cavoodle this year, she would just spread it all over the yard. Soaking it sounds interesting
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Re: Gardenia ph levels

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