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Found seedlings. What now?

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Re: Found seedlings. What now?

Post by silkyfizz on 13th June 2015, 19:39

Well it's a waiting game now I know. Maybe I'll be lucky and it will give me a flower in the springtime.
David, if it had, say Graham Thomas as both parents, would that give me another Graham Thomas? I don't know much about this stuff.
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Re: Found seedlings. What now?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 13th June 2015, 19:52

No is the simple answer. I will try and explain this tomorrow.
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Re: Found seedlings. What now?

Post by silkyfizz on 13th June 2015, 21:13

OK thanks. Sorry if it's a dumb question.
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Re: Found seedlings. What now?

Post by neptune on 13th June 2015, 23:44

silkyfizz wrote:OK thanks. Sorry if it's a dumb question.


Definitely NOT a dumb question, Silky......
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Re: Found seedlings. What now?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 14th June 2015, 06:59

As John says Silky, it is not a dumb question. The best way I can answer this is to relate it to the world around us.
First off look at the Zebra, mum and dad have a baby, the baby "looks" like the parents, BUT that baby has a totally different set of stripes and this is how they are identified by us humans in research.
Then you have us "Humans" we look like our parents to the eye, to some they can see a Grandparent.
Species do cross, one example is the Zebu, it is better know to us as a Brahman.
Roses started out as species, down the track they crossed by animals, the botanist traveled the world and collected material to take home so the country they had come from had new and unusual plants(roses), then man/woman intervened because of curiosity and started to play with them. Genetics(Mendelism and Hurst) comes into play. bigtime.  Early breeders kept notes to the best of their ability. So what Austin/ Meilland / Kordes are working with is not pure, it is believed Kordes are on a new track and it appears that they "might" have some close to pure breeding stock now.
So we will look at your chances, Graham Thomas next to Gold Bunny.

Graham Thomas' family is,
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A lot of pink in there
Gold Bunny's family,
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Lots of yellow here
Big chance of a yellow seedling, but, then there is always a but, as roses are basically pink in the original form, pink does mask other colours, which means "it" might pull one of it's ancestors to the front. This takes us back to Mendel with his pea experiment.
It will be interesting to see how the seedling progresses. Some inclination of mum and dad comes from the start, juvenile growth. Leaf shape, leaf serration, Leaf axis, thorn shape, thorn arrangement. The flower head can also give some indication, the peduncle, sepals and so forth, it might have mossing to it. As that juvenile growth ages, we look for similarities to the old wood on the surrounding roses.
People I talk to on a breeding forum have explained to me that if you do a self X self rose it will not give you a seedling of it's self. I am going to try this with Buccaneer, Julia's Child, Golden Child, when I come home from holidays. Silky if any of your roses have hips on them you could take one and strip it and sow the seeds, not one will be the the same, they might be similar.
Hope this helps, most probably hinders.

Silky, here is a prime example, out a cross with Chrysler Imperial and Charles Mallerin, from on seed pod came,
Oklahoma, Papa Meilland and Mister Lincoln.
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Re: Found seedlings. What now?

Post by silkyfizz on 15th June 2015, 18:17

Thank you so much David for that explanation, which amazingly, I was able to follow. So my little seedlings are now more mysterious than ever.
I really appreciate the time and trouble you have taken to answer my questions, especially as your forthcoming holiday must be at the forefront of your mind. I know it would occupy my every waking thought if it was me.
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Re: Found seedlings. What now?

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