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Big old girls - please help with advice!

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Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by muscovyduckling on 11th June 2014, 13:25

I have ordered some big roses this year. I can't help it, I really like them. But now I am getting a bit nervous about just how big they will be.

I asked about Mme Alfred Carriere on an American forum where I knew a lot of the participants grew her, and the general consensus was that she would be far too big to grow into a 4-5 metre maple tree. Fair enough. She can eat my water tank instead.

I ordered Cl. Lorraine Lee specifically to plant in 'no mans land' where she can do as she pleases.

But what about Lamarque and Cl. Devoniensis? I had ordered these two to grow together over my little hexagonal gazebo (about 2.5 metres wide and high) after reading size descriptions on HMF, but some websites say Lamarque will get to 6 metres!! Will Lamarque laugh in the face of Cl Devoniensis before eating her AND my gazebo for breakfast?

Perhaps it would be better to let Cl. Devoniensis have the gazebo to herself, and set Lamarque loose on the western wall of my house instead?

I don't want to have to prune these beauties to within an inch of their lives Sad
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muscovyduckling

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by AutumnDamask on 11th June 2014, 14:52

"Depends, depends, depends"
So much depends on your particular garden situation.
I've got a Mme Alfred C that is around 3m at the moment. It took her about 2-3 yrs to get there. How fast is the maple growing...? Wink If the climbers are searching for light then they will probably go taller. Same with Lamarque. Mine are around 3m high. But they are in a "tough" place and it's taken a few years to get there.

And if all else fails - you CAN prune them... Smile
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AutumnDamask

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by muscovyduckling on 11th June 2014, 15:43

Hehe, thanks Wendy. The maple's not doing anything much, I don't think it will grow much bigger, but I will try a smaller rose there for now.

Misty Downs website says MAC will grow to 3 metres and Lamarque will get to 6 ( I looked there because they're not too far from here) but HMF says MAC will top 7 metres and Lamarque will make 4.5 metres, so it's all very confusing. I think I will just let Lamarque try to eat my house (god, I hope he does! I have the biggest crush on Lamarque) and hope he makes a go of it.

I'll pair up Cl. Devoniensis with Cl. SDLM on the gazebo thing I suppose. I was going to put Cl. SDLM in the sunroom to negate balling, BUT then I started thinking that mildew might get her if she never gets rained on... I don't know if that is crazy thinking or not.

Does anyone have any experience with this?
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muscovyduckling

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by muscovyduckling on 11th June 2014, 15:44

Oh geez, I'm totally lost, aren't I?
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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by Debbie G on 11th June 2014, 17:39

I just love Lamarque Zoe. I just went out to measure his vital statistics for your information. He is growing on a long arbour thing over our back path. It is about 2.3 high and 2metres wide. Lamaque covers about 4.5 - 5 metres of it.
We just chop the tendrils off if he gets a bit unruly, and the joy of it is, he has almost no thorns! I don't think there's a day of the year he doesn't have a flower.
I have planted Mme Alfred at the other end to cover a similar area, I hope.
There was a rose that I'm pretty sure was Cl Devoniensis near where I used to work - it was amazing, and HUGE!! It grew over the carport of this house and half the verandah. I nearly ran off the road the first time I saw it in full bloom, just stunning! I've ordered a little bush Devoniensis this year, I've always wanted one, and I know I've ordered way too much and will be walking round and round the garden for days looking for spots to fit them all in.
Don't worry, you'll fit your climbers in and they will look amazing. More is better with roses, I'm sure!

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by Balinbear on 11th June 2014, 19:32

We have all of the roses being discussed. Our MACs are not huge but we do prune them. We have them growing on a couple of obelisk type thingies. There is one (maybe a couple together) growing the in the rose garden at Parramatta and they are bloody big.

From all reports I have had Denvoniensis CLG can get quite large also. We have a couple on a pergola and they are slow going but apparently they do rocket along in the right situation.

Our climbing Lorraine Lee is only a couple of years old but is starting to grow up the pergola we have it planted on. We used to have one growing as a large shrub but it used to grab you as you walked past and proceed to rip you apart with its thorns. We took it out as it grew quite fast and was too dangerous where we had it planted.

Our Lamarque are growing quite large also but when they flower it is a magnificent sight. We have two growing on an arch about 2.5 metres high and the rose is about 1 metre thick over the top.

If you really want a LARGE climber which always seems to have a flower on it (also lovely when in a full flush) try a Mamon Cochet Clg (the Pink one seems to be larger than the white one and flowers a lot better) but make sure you stand back once you have planted it.
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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by muscovyduckling on 12th June 2014, 11:14

Thankyou Gary, Wendy and Debbie for your help!

I will definitely keep Lorraine Lee over in 'no mans land' after hearing about her scary thorns and grabby arms, Gary.

Thankyou for measuring Lamarque for me Debbie. I'm curious about how you have trained him - does he grow up and then out, or have you espaliered him low down along your tunnel/arch?
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muscovyduckling

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by Debbie G on 12th June 2014, 17:37

Our Lamarque actually does grow up and then out, with very little help from me. He has three thick branches, like a grape vine, reaching up to the top of the arbour. These have then spread and covered the top in a mass of smaller branches. He is constantly sending out thin new branches which reach out past the arbour and hang down a bit. We just chop off bits that are growing in awkward spots, or old branches that I can reach.
I would really like to learn how to train climbers properly. I think they flower better if they are pruned and tied up properly, but mine are a very undisciplined lot.

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by muscovyduckling on 12th June 2014, 20:15

Debbie, I watched some Youtube videos by Paul Zimmerman about pruning and training climbers. They were pretty straightforward, just telling you to train main canes horizontally for more blooms. I haven't really seen anything that explains what to do with that big mountain of growth that happens when the climber reaches the too of whatever it's climbing though, so I would be interested to learn about that too.
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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 13th June 2014, 06:24

It is my opinion that all the climbing family of rose will want to flower at the top of its growth(apical dominance). Once the leader/leaders have got to the top they will then start to tumble down the sides, something like an umbrella effect, that is if it is in a tree or similar. This can be seen in Gary's photo's. If these plants are trained say along a fence the same applies they will run with new growth if trained to the fences end and cut off, the apical dominance will come into play again along the entire length of it's arm/arms, the new shoots will aim for the sky. When pruning some of these "OGR" don't for get "some" only flow on old wood, this is "normally" two year old wood, I have shown this rose before but it shows the effect of the umbrella,
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The Lazy Rosarian

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

Post by Debbie G on 13th June 2014, 06:44

The ones I have most trouble with are Kathleen Harrop, who sends up lots of big canes from the base. Trevor has built me a bigger stronger arbour for her so I'm going to be be a bit more strict and tie the canes to encourage them to flower along the canes a bit more.
My real wild child is Celine Forrestier, who, as you say David, has reached the top of her structure but still sends up metre high canes from there, she doesn't seem to want to be an umbrella. However there are signs of hope, and some of her branches are starting to spread.

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Re: Big old girls - please help with advice!

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