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Experience with arbours?

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Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 14th May 2014, 15:43

So I've ordered Lamarque and Cl. Devoniensis that I want to grow over an arbour, but I don't have an arbour... Hahaha.

I'm just wondering if the metal ones from hardware stores are actually going to be strong enough for these behemoths? Or do I need to build something? And if so....what?

I'm not very handy, but I'm willing to have a go at something.

I'd like something fairly deep, so if I did get a prefab one, I would probably actually get two, if that makes a difference.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by AutumnDamask on 14th May 2014, 15:53

I wouldn't go for one of the cheaper "kit" ones. We've got one that is made from more solid stuff - was still a kit though and cost about $300?
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 14th May 2014, 17:09

Is it a metal one? They have some timber ones at The Big Green Shop too, but I do worry about termites and rot.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 14th May 2014, 18:00

Zoe, my questions to you are,

1. are you going to live there for a long time, if so I would go metal
2. If you get it made or you know someone you can decide the height and shape
3. Is there a metal place you could talk to about this. You could do it in stages yourself once you have the design.
4. the plants will not require all of it at once
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 14th May 2014, 18:38

Thanks Roseman. Umm, I will live here until I'm too old to walk up the stairs, or until the footy club next door drive me to commit a crime for which I will be imprisoned for the rest of my natural life (surely I could use 'footy bogan induced insanity' as my legal defence though, right?). So I guess metal is the way to go.

I don't know any metal fabricators or anything, but I guess there probably is a metal place around here. I will have a look on the Internets for one.

I suppose you're right though, there's no great rush, I could let them do their thing on tepees for the first season.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 15th May 2014, 06:41

Zoe, I had another thought over night, have you got any friends that are "computer nerds" to say. I think there are free applications which would generate your arbor, one that I know of is AutoCad, I will look around and see what I can find.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 15th May 2014, 07:48

Thanks Roseman, I'm not very good at AutoCad but I did study architecture at Uni (never got good grades in AutoCad class, hahah). But I'm pretty comfortable producing working drawings by hand (old school, I know, but works for me).

It just depends if I can find a metal fabricator who can do the work for a reasonable price. I found one fellow near-ish to me who does garden arches, but he charges about $2500 for them, which seems at tad mental.

My limit would be nearer the $400 mark. So it might be The Big Green Shop for me.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 15th May 2014, 12:16

Zoe, if you can draw, I am sure you could purchase lots of steel for $400. Do you know anyone with a thing called a drop saw, it is used for cutting lengths of steel. Steel comes in standard lengths, this will also help with heights and lengths of the arbor.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 15th May 2014, 12:26

Drop saw, eh? I will ask my father in law.

Can you bend steel tube with one of those springs, like you can with copper? Or would a pipe bender be needed?

I am going to have a look at a wrought iron type gazebo thingy this afternoon that is advertised on Gumtree, so this may all be moot anyway.. But good to know for future reference. Because I like climbers... And will need more....
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by neptune on 15th May 2014, 13:00

Zoe, you need a pipe bender for the steel tube........ unless you are going to use small diameter pipe, which you can use a pipe bender that the plumbers use, and then weld it all together to the shape you want
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Balinbear on 15th May 2014, 13:47

Most of ours are made of treated pine. The first one I built back in the late 80's is still going fine.

Unless you have the gear steel tends to cost more and you need to make sure they are not rusting.

Our first one is that one on the right with the pointed top. When we first built it (an Easter present for Lee) we had Albertine growing over it.

After a few years we thought that we would like something that flowers all year so we took it off and planted Mrs BR Cant on it but they were not covering it as well as we liked and I think we missed the Albertine so we took out the BR's and replanted Albertine on it. They are just starting to get it covered again.
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One of our standard pergolas that we have about the place. Easy to build and should last for a while.
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They may be a bit "utility" looking for a smaller garden and the steel arch type may be better. Most of ours are covered in Tea Climbers and really apart form the posts you cant see them all that much any more

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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 15th May 2014, 14:22

Thanks for the pics Gary, always welcome! Well, if treated pine seems to work in the tropics, it should do OK at my place too.

Do you concrete your posts into the ground? And if so, how do the roses cope with being planted near concrete?

I think your larger pergolas would look out of proportion in my little half acre garden, but your pointy archway would fit nicely I'm sure.

Regardless, I just went to see this gazebo thingy and it looks great, so I've left the lady a $50 deposit (hopefully this was not too naive of me), so if all goes to plan I will pick it up in the DH's ute on Monday.

The best part is, it's hexagonal... Which means one side against the back fence, one side to walk through, and FOUR sides to grow roses on!!! And everybody knows four roses is better than two Smile

I have the hots for so many climbing teas....
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Balinbear on 15th May 2014, 15:16

I try to avoid concreting them in as water can get caught in the conc and the posts may rot. If I uses concrete I put the bottom of the posts in 12inches of gravel and then concrete above that so if any water seeps down it will get to the gravel and soak away.

Yes the Climbing Teas and Noisettes can be spectacular. Watch that they don't get away from you
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 15th May 2014, 16:51

Thanks everyone for the great advice Smile I never really thought of making/designing my own arbour but that is something I would definitely like to do in the near future.

I might have a go at a copper trellis/pillar in the meantime. I will let you know how that goes if I ever finish my digging/planting and get time to make one.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Debbie G on 15th May 2014, 17:09

As usual, I just love the pictures of your garden Gary.
What is the yellowish rose in the last picture? It looks amazing billowing over the arbour.

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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Balinbear on 15th May 2014, 19:58

Debbie
That's Rev d'Or. A Noisette that has some flowers on it most times of the year but has great flushes throughout spring and Autumn. That photo was taken in October. We have just had a similar flush.

Actually that pergola has a bit of story to it. The rose was originally growing on a bit of an arch made of reinforcing steel mesh. The weight of the rose was flattening out the arch so I knew I had to do something with it.

At that time there was a Poinciana tree growing beside it and there was a large branch over the arch. The tree was causing all sorts of problems with its roots and shade so we decided to remove it. Being an expert tree feller that I am we soon had it lying on top of the arch instead of the ground where it was supposed to have landed. So we cut the tree off and the arch was pretty well collapsed.

Instead of cutting off the rose and starting again we cut the mesh out from it and pulled the rose up and back and then more or less built the pergola under it and then lowered the rose onto the top of it. The rose has not looked back since.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Debbie G on 15th May 2014, 21:00

I can really identify with that story Gary. I have a Kathleen Harrop that is growing over a metal arch, actually two of those really cheap ones put together, and the arch has just about collapsed. My husband, who rather enjoys building arboury things, is building a new strong Koppers log arbour under the rose and taking great trouble not to chop it off at the base. I told him he could if he likes as it grows so fast it will be bigger than ever in no time, but I think he's enjoying the challenge.
About Reve D'Or, it's beautiful! We have a small arbour (another of Trevor's) out the front. I have Mme Pierre Oger and Louise Odier who are supposed to be growing over it, but I'm a bit disappointed in them. Mme Oger is lovely in spring but doesn't flower much after that for me. Same with Louise. I'm seriously thinking of replacing them. I wanted something yellow. I have Crepuscule out the back, and even considered another one for the front. I'd kind of settled on Alister Stella Gray, but your Reve D' Or is pretty awesome, so maybe that's the way to go. What do you think?

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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Balinbear on 16th May 2014, 11:01

We have several of Rev d Or and they are all great flowerers and look good so far as foliage goes.

I have been meaning to get an Alistair Stella Gray for a long time but always seem to leave it out of the list. Maybe next year.

We di have a crepuscule which was one of oldest roses but it died last year. It never really did much so far as growing and flowering, however, there is one growing on a carport bout 5kms from here and it is magnificent. I think we just got a dud and we put up with it. We have ordered another one this year.

We have tried both Mme Pierre Oger and Louise Odier and they never did any good up here.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 16th May 2014, 11:15

They're all so lovely looking, so go with the smelliest one!
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Debbie G on 16th May 2014, 18:04

I planted Mme P Oger because I had one when we lived in Dubbo, and it was lovely. So I think, every year, I make excuses for her, because I know she can do better.But I think the time has come….!
As for Crepuscule, I've found her bomb proof here, and beautiful.  Isn't it amazing how roses can behave so differently in different places, different climates, soils and so on.
It may seem trivial, but does Reve D' Or have a lot of thorns? If it is over the front gate i'd like it to have at least some social skills, and not attack all the visitors.


Last edited by Debbie G on 16th May 2014, 18:12; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : appalling grammar)

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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Balinbear on 16th May 2014, 22:37

Rev d Or does not have too many thorns. It has them but not too many.
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by muscovyduckling on 17th May 2014, 00:35

But what about fragrance, Gary? The million dollar question....
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by betsyw on 17th May 2014, 08:05

Zoe, Reve is endowed with a lovely fragrance. Very Happy Very Happy 
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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by Debbie G on 17th May 2014, 09:19

Thanks Gary! I think I will be ordering some more noisettes, they do seem to be such friendly and cheerful roses, always in flower.
I never find Crepuscule to have much perfume, but other people do. I guess another of those individual things. I can't smell violets.
I'm with you though Betsy, if it says 'slight fragrance', (meaning: 'none whatsoever'), I generally don't give it another glance.

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Re: Experience with arbours?

Post by betsyw on 17th May 2014, 10:18

Yeah Deb, and I don't even trust "Moderate" as a fragrance rating anymore. And "Delicate" is code for "Put flower in bag and stick bag over your head."
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