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Hooray I got the golden egg

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Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by paulh on 16th February 2014, 23:56

Finally I get my hands on the golden egg that that goose laid lol   After continual knock backs from all the rose nurseries here in Perth, I finally got a Fortuniana rose. A big thank you goes to Clifford at Roworths Rose nursery in Landsdale Perth. He would only let me have one, and I had to promise on my life that I wasn't going to try and put him out of business  lol!  Well, I'll just have accept I have only one and just multiply from it.
Anyways, I will guard it with my life, and I may even have to get it insured. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by neptune on 17th February 2014, 00:32

........ : 
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 17th February 2014, 06:40

Paul now you have the "Golden Egg" what are you going to do with it.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by paulh on 17th February 2014, 14:50

Thanks roseman, well I will nurture it so it becomes a thriving bush, then multiply from it and then start grafting from it
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by maree on 17th February 2014, 19:20

Well done Paul , look forward to hearing about your adventures with this Golden Egg ....
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by paulh on 17th February 2014, 22:45

Further to the story, while talking to Cliff, he was explaining there Fortuniana, I got a bit lost in his critique. He was showing me the original Fortuniana hedge that they had transplanted 35 odd years ago, however they have been selective breeding the Fortuniana and as I understand it they have changed the breeding. I have I think the latest breed which is 2 times removed from the original. Apparently they are trying to breed out thorns and he explained a lot of other info, that's where a got left behind. He mentioned that they can now get a rose at the 2 year old stage in only 9 months, hence has helped with there production heaps. Anyways a bit of info for those who are following this thread.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by Ausrose on 18th February 2014, 05:13

I not sure which strain of fortuniana I bought last Winter however I have found it to be no where near as vigoras as multiflora.

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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by AutumnDamask on 18th February 2014, 06:40

Congratulations on finding it!! Smile

paulh wrote:He mentioned that they can now get a rose at the 2 year old stage in only 9 months, hence has helped with there production heaps.
HMMMMM.........

I have a concern with this: in animals I've noticed that those that have their growth pushed along - eg. lambs that reach almost adult size by the time they are 1 rather than 2 - are more likely to shorter-lived in production terms.
My slow-grow lambs could never compete in the showring with the ones from the Western District, grown on limestone country with copious lucerne, but I'd still be showing my ewes at age 4-5 and you'd never see any from that area....

My point being - there have been comments at times about the short-lived character of some of the modern roses. Maybe this is part of the reason why?
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by rosebud on 18th February 2014, 08:46

Congratulations on your persistence,Paul ... and ultimately finding the prize! Look forward to hearing all about your adventures. Interesting discussion you had with your nurseryman about the genetics of rose breeding. I'd be interested to know exactly where/how/with what/etc they 'changed the breeding',...
A fascinating little research project for someone!!
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by Debbie G on 18th February 2014, 10:51

I like the idea of breeding out thorns!

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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by maree on 18th February 2014, 18:31

Autumn , i agree with you on the life span of hybrid teas , they definately have a shorter life span than i would have expected , its not that they just up and die , they are just not as productive , or just don't produce new canes , no matter what you do ...
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by silkyfizz on 18th February 2014, 19:48

Yes I think I agree. I wonder though whether our efforts to push the roses along through feeding and TLC, we inadvertently force their "burn out". In the wild, plants don't get that level of care and perhaps are longer lived, though with fewer flowers. Obviously HT's aren't find in a wild state but you get the picture.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by Ausrose on 18th February 2014, 20:52

A number of the top exhibitors over the years have force fed their roses with dire consequences.

The AQ and I have had some of our roses for 27 years and they are still performing quite well. The secret is to cut  the stems out once they get to 3/4 years old so the bushes always have smooth green stems coming from the bud union. This applies to all our roses with the exception of White Spray as this particular rarely throws water shoots if ever.

A few years back all our Joyfulness weren't performing as well as they had done previously and the blooms had deteriorated markedly as these particular bushes had given us many awards I was hoping I could rejuvenate them. I spoke to an octogenarian mate of mine that had been in roses most of his life and he suggested either kill them or cure them with a radical prune. I followed his advice and it's now history how the roses bounced back and produced a grand champion at the prestigious Illawarra rose show in the following spring. The bushes continue to be in great condition and I'm reasonably confident there's more wins on the way come spring.

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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by maree on 18th February 2014, 21:28

Last year i followed the Swanes method of pruning , but  maybe i just wasn't ruthless enough , see how i go this year ...
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by silkyfizz on 18th February 2014, 22:04

Maree can you just remind me about Swane's method? I could look it up but too lazy tonight.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by maree on 18th February 2014, 22:39

They do the hard prune Silky , take out any canes that are two or three years old , i'll have to watch the video again ..
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by silkyfizz on 18th February 2014, 22:47

Yikes!  affraid 
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by paulh on 19th February 2014, 00:33

rosebud wrote:Congratulations on your persistence,Paul ... and ultimately finding the prize!  Look forward to hearing all about your adventures.  Interesting discussion you  had with your nurseryman about the genetics of rose breeding. I'd be interested to know exactly where/how/with what/etc they 'changed the breeding',...
A fascinating little research project for someone!!

Yes it is rosebud it is fascinating, I will do a return visit to Roworths probably a week day not a sunday like before, hopefully it won't be as busy and Cliff will be accommodating in explaining things a little more for me.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by paulh on 19th February 2014, 00:38

maree wrote:Autumn , i agree with you on the life span of hybrid teas , they definately have a shorter life span than i would have expected , its not that they just up and die , they are just not as productive , or just don't produce new canes , no matter what you do ...

Hmmm, maree, I visited a boutique rose nurserey about a year ago, the Italian chap that owns it was giving me an outline of his business. He pointed out to me some Hybrid T's in his yard that have been in the ground 60 years or so and i must say they were fine specimens.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 19th February 2014, 06:38

WE collectively have taken our 'modern' rose to far away from thier parents/grandparents.
Mr Austin realized this a few years back and is using some of his late 80s early 90s roses in his breeding now. There are some exceptions, Bill Radler has bred some very good roses with some old one's, but he was breeding for 'disease resistance' which he achieved and became millionaire after a lifetime of work. Kordes and others are introducing similar things with parentage of "seedling x seedling" to keep thier proprietary work and the money involved to achieve them a secret. At present the only way to get some sort of glimpse into the parentage is look at the 'patent' as this is as close as possible you can get. The rose in the comparison has to be very very similar.

Paul, next time you visit the Italian chap, could you get a small list of these 60 year olds and I will have look through thier parentage and possibly find the "good guys" in it.
At present I am working on "Dainty Bess", some interesting plants in her life.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by Ausrose on 19th February 2014, 22:20

In 1968 nonagenarian Marguerite Parkes bred the rose Sharon Louise and she still has the original in her garden. She told me when I interviewed her some time back the rose had been moved 5 times to date.


Last edited by Ausrose on 20th February 2014, 11:22; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by paulh on 20th February 2014, 00:13

roseman wrote:WE collectively have taken our 'modern' rose to far away from thier parents/grandparents.
Mr Austin realized this a few years back and is using some of his late 80s early 90s roses in his breeding now. There are some exceptions, Bill Radler has bred some very good roses with some old one's, but he was breeding for 'disease resistance' which he achieved and became millionaire after a lifetime of work. Kordes and others are introducing similar things with parentage of "seedling x seedling" to keep thier proprietary work and the money involved to achieve them a secret. At present the only way to get some sort of glimpse into the parentage is look at the 'patent' as this is as close as possible you can get. The rose in the comparison has to be very very similar.

Paul, next time you visit the Italian chap, could you get a small list of these 60 year olds and I will have look through thier parentage and possibly find the "good guys" in it.
At present I am working on "Dainty Bess", some interesting plants in her life.  

Interesting info there roseman, I can remember for sure that one of the said roses was Blue Moon, hope that helps.
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by rosebud on 27th February 2014, 21:36

I would also be fascinated to learn more about the roses you mention, Paul, that are still going strong after 60 years and several moves. I have read various reports of living heirlooms that have outlived generations and love the idea of breeding for longevity ... including roses that will adapt to 'climate change' and all it's variant impacts. A very interesting topic you've raised - thanks Paul
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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by Ausrose on 27th February 2014, 23:42

Here are examples of two very old roses that still survive today that have adapted the climate change that has taken place in their life time.  

The world's oldest living rose is believed to be 1,000 years old. It grows on the wall of the Cathedral of Hildesheim in Germany and its presence is documented since A.D. 815. According to the legend, the rosebush symbolizes the prosperity of the city of Hildesheim; as long as it flourishes, Hildesheim will not decline. In 1945 allied bombers destroyed the cathedral, yet the bush survived. Its roots remained intact beneath the debris, and soon the bush was growing strong again.

The world's largest rosebush is a white Lady Banksia located in Tombstone, Arizona. It's original root came over from Scotland in 1885. From a single trunk, which is nearly six feet in diameter, it spreads over an arbor that covers over 8,00 square feet, enough to shelter a crowd of 150 people.

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Re: Hooray I got the golden egg

Post by paulh on 28th February 2014, 00:54

Ausrose wrote:
Here are examples of two very old roses that still survive today that have adapted the climate change that has taken place in their life time.  

The world's oldest living rose is believed to be 1,000 years old. It grows on the wall of the Cathedral of Hildesheim in Germany and its presence is documented since A.D. 815. According to the legend, the rosebush symbolizes the prosperity of the city of Hildesheim; as long as it flourishes, Hildesheim will not decline. In 1945 allied bombers destroyed the cathedral, yet the bush survived. Its roots remained intact beneath the debris, and soon the bush was growing strong again.

The world's largest rosebush is a white Lady Banksia located in Tombstone, Arizona. It's original root came over from Scotland in 1885. From a single trunk, which is nearly six feet in diameter, it spreads over an arbor that covers over 8,00 square feet, enough to shelter a crowd of 150 people.

wow this is awesome ausrose, thanks for that
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