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New seedlings -Poesie

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New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Poesie on 3rd May 2013, 05:41

It's spring here right now. Today my first seedling started to bloom.
This is an OP seedling of the Little Rambler (Warner). It is just 5,5 cm (2") high. This is very early blooming. I hope it still has much growing to do. The seedling has midlle fragrance, there is about 15 petals and it is very healthy so far.

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I have these OP seedlings too:
-a few Baron Girod L'ain
-a few Mmme. Isaac Perreire
-2x Rosa Multiflora
-a few of Rimosa cl. (Gold Bunny cl.)
-2x Souvenir Du Dr. Jamain
-2x rambler Paul's Himalayan Musk
-1x Jubillee Celebration

and some of my first hyb.seedlings:

- 3x Mme.Isaac Perreire x NN floribunda- it looks like cross with Austins
- 2x Astrid Grafin von Hardenberg x Purple Splash
- 1x Astrid Grafin von Hardenberg x Zagreb 900
- 3x Astrid Grafin von Hardenberg x Teasing Georgia
- 2x Caramella (2001) x Graham Thomas
- 1x Graham Thomas x (Kristov Jubilej 2000  x Doux Parfem)
- 1x Teasing Georgia x mix pollen (6 roses)
- 1x moss Gabriell Noyelle x Eyes for you

All these seedlings are still very small. I hope that this year one fragrant, beautiful and healthy rose will develop from them.

Some of my lastyear OP seedlings are now just before blooming for the first time.
How much joy.  Very Happy


Last edited by Poesie on 8th December 2014, 23:17; edited 3 times in total
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Poesie

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 3rd May 2013, 05:59

Posie they should produce something nice. This spring try Graham Thomas X Astrid Grafin Von Hardenberg and Charles Austin x AGV Hardenberg, they should produce a very nice shape.

Warren

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 4th May 2013, 08:10

Posie dont you think they would be any good crossed?

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Poesie on 4th May 2013, 08:38

Warren, I think the first will be, I don't have Charles Austin so I can't make the second.
Crosses will not be a problem, though I have one question for you about seedling potting soil.

Warren;(this is one of your answers in the forum)... ''I use potting mix at this stage (3-4 weeks), drainage is very important as wet feet make them go backwards...''

I think this happened with all of my seedlings.They're aproximately 4 months old, but they are still very very small. I think that this potting mix isn't working for me. I use liquid fertilizer made from alge.
I must transplate them into bigger pots. What size of pots would you reccomend, and what kind of a soil mix?
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 4th May 2013, 08:57

Posie this is what seedlings should look like around 10 weeks old


If not , then I would change the brand of potting mix which will give you better results. The nitrogen levels in the Algae fertilzer may be very low, I only use this as a means of building up stronger tissue to combat frost conditions and is fed every third feed during the winter months.

If the seedlings are very small potting them up into larger pots which contain more moisture than the sedling can use, could be trouble. Be aware of this and keep an eye on the soil dampness before you water.

The soil mix I use is premium potting mix here in Australia, it must have good drainage but also be able to retain moisture and nutrient within the pot.

Astrid Grafin Von Hardenberg X Abraham Darby would produce something very interesting I feel.

Warren

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Poesie on 6th May 2013, 01:13

Warren, yes I know that my seedlings at this stage 4 - 5 months should be much higher and stronger than they are. Now I see that this is because of the very bad potting soil. They look like 1 -2 month old seedlings. Last year I had more succes with a few OP seedlings, but I don't remmember wich soil it was. Here we can't buy the Premium potting mix (I read the mix has some great ingredients). Today I bought Universale potgrond (from Asef) 6 Osmocote (NPK 14-16-13). I have also gotten some larger pots so I hope there will be some positive changes.
Thank you Warren.
p.s. -I'm Poesie not Posie Wink
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Ozeboy on 6th May 2013, 06:51

Warren, your seedlings look very healthy and growing well.

Mildew claimed quite a few of my seedlings again this season. Have been trying to adjust the moisture which is difficult without a proper seedling raising area. I have them on the rear north facing verandah on tables. The shadecloth lined baskets are sitting in 4" high sided metal trays approximately 3' x 2'. Moisture and nutrients are poured into the trays just sufficient for the seedlings in potting mix to become moist. I have been able to control the moisture in the baskets well though the atmosphere is what ever the weather is. Seedling growth is good though not as healthy looking as yours. Will start to use the Thrive or Aquasol spray in addition to the nutrients in the trays. This seasons seedlings are from 8" to 15" tall with some producing 2 blooms at the same time. Potting mix is local bulk truck load that I adjust the PH, NPK is not known.
I do use a mildew type spray which works best as a preventative but once the seedlings are effected little can be done to save them.

Any words of wisdom to add to the above?

Ozeboy

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 6th May 2013, 21:05

Bruce those sedlings are from a few years back, I only used the pic to show Poesie what I would regard as healthy seeding for that time period of 10 wks.

A few seedlings get slight PM when very young, but those which are totally covered ( leaves and stems ) are discarded very quickly. I stopped using a lot of Gallicas, Bourbons and Centifolia because of their offspring where so effected by it.

The seedlings sitting in tray of moisture is not good, roots nearer the bottom will rot due to excessive moiture and you have a huge amount of moisture evaporating below the foliage. Just think what fungus and mildews like, moisture.

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Ozeboy on 7th May 2013, 09:47

Thanks Warren, I did have similar thoughts re the set up I'm using but have tried to use the bottom tray for watering only and not as a storage for moisture. The water uptake is about 10 minutes long then dry from then on. I have the tables perfectly level so the water is an even depth all over the bottom. I even bought a tap to drain water out after a shorter period like 2 minutes to get better control.

Downey mildew has been a real problem for a lot of seedling raisers here on the coast so I do need a special built room to get the best results. Surprising how pollen from 'CHEWfragbabe' produces almost 100% mildew free seedlings irrespective of the seed parent used.

I speak regularly to the MD of one of the largest nurseries in Australia and he mentioned rose sales are down since better natives are available. Buyers are going for healthy maintanence free garden types. Some beginners are selecting exhibition type roses with high centered blooms and fragrance only to find they don't fit into todays fast lifestyle.
Space is also a problem due to the high number of Townhouses being built. Hence the need for breeders to pick up on Miniflora types.

The last rose I registered is a Miniflora bred from the two most healthy roses I have here. It's very interesting how life changes, even Darrel Lea losing $200K a week was bought out, then all the stores closed due to a deal for Woolies and Coles to stock their sweets. Now they are making a good profit. I do believe roses are going through change and if not bomb proof then they won't sell.

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 7th May 2013, 19:00

Bruce the style of rose wanted in Europe has changed quite a bit. Its like anything, the evolving market changes so you have to adapt to suit the tastes of the majority and with roses in Europe these are what people are after.

Shrub types
Old fashioned and single blooms representing those of species types.
Abundant blooming
Big perfumes
Pastel colours
Minimal or no spraying needed.



Last edited by Ozroz on 9th May 2013, 05:45; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Ozeboy on 8th May 2013, 01:32

Warren, you have described what I'm sure would be a real winner.
Best of luck overseas and I'm sure we are in for an exciting period for rose breeders.

On another note, would you happen to have a virus free 'Charlotte Armstrong' I could have some buds from. I have it here for breeding but can't propagate it due to it being virused. Your help would be appreciated.

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 8th May 2013, 19:14

Thanks for that Bruce. I dont have Charlotte Armstrong, when I need CA genes, I use Queen Elizabeth to access them through her breeding lines

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Isabelle on 9th May 2013, 05:18

I love the roses you breed from Queen Elizabeth but I would never plant Queen Elizabeth itself !
You made a good summary of our tastes here in Europe but I would add "soft colours".
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 9th May 2013, 06:23

I agree Isabelle, "soft colours" are the way to go or are the way things are going I believe.
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Ozeboy on 9th May 2013, 14:53

I have so many Tea roses, all very soft in colour and some very fragrant. They are a little too large for a lot of gardens but are absolutely trouble free. Some are bushed right to the ground.

My wife and I went down to Swane's in 1980 to buy roses for a bed along the fence, They had a care brochure top heavy with fungus and pestercide sprays, a real turn off for me. I don't spray at all now except for the just germinated seedlings and first shoots from budding.

Isabelle, nice to see you following and posting.

David, I notice Tom Carruth has quite a few very deep coloured one to his credit like Hot Cocoa, Ebb Tide etc. What a talent and well educated guy he is. Weeks hand pollinate 50K blooms for 250K seeds.
I believe there is little chance of us small breeders coming up with something special without it being a well thought out fluke. Best of luck just the same.

Warren, re Charlotte Armstrong which as mentioned mine is virused but have had two inquiries for it this season and can't supply as I never knowingly sell virused roses.
because

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 9th May 2013, 15:53

Bruce as I have said all along and no one listens to the boy from the bush. You do not have to pollinate 50,000 blooms or sow 250,000 seeds to get good roses, just do your homework, as in research and you will find it a lot easier. Pollinating just for the sake of the numbers and hoping something will come of it is Bl***y waste of time. My two bobs worth.

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 9th May 2013, 17:36

So why then do Kordes or others do so many Warren.
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 9th May 2013, 17:42

or Austin

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 9th May 2013, 18:52

Is it because of the variation in the gene pool
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Guest on 9th May 2013, 19:15

If you choose your parents well enough you can have a rather large and diverse gene pool ( even from a small number as 5 ) . It depends on what you want to achieve. I know from what I have bred and then combining those with certain gene pools will give a particular trait or traites. But as I said you have to do your homework, (its saves a lot of time, effort and resources)

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 9th May 2013, 19:53

So why do the big companies do it Warren, is it because they can ?
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by Ozeboy on 9th May 2013, 20:08

Warren, I have been studying pedigrees since our exchange of ideas a few years back. Have also taken a lot of notice of Simon Voorwinde's posts regarding health and use of species in breeding. Every now and again I will pick out a breeder of note and study the roses they use once and repeatedly. McGredy seems to have the nack of picking winners at random. Dawson has used Daily Sketch to just about everything. There seems to be a pattern emerging the more I look at their systems. However there are so many I would like to trial but left it too late. I have bought in a few roses and rescued others that appear as good breeding prospects. Some of these are Carefree Beauty, Carefree Wonder, Floradora, CHEWfragbabe, Baby Love, Little Darling,
Sweet Chariot. About 50 healthy HT's from 1900 to the present that make hips and come in every colour with and without fragrance.

I often look at roses I have thrown out due to lack of vigour and just poor doers like Playboy, Colour Wonder and Peace which others have
used for breeding. I find all the DA's useless here in our humidity except for 3 or 4.

CHEWfragbabe is the stand out pollinator for me and just about everything I pollinate with it is healthy. Roundelay, Montezuma Midas Touch and Ebb Tide have produced some nice seedlings pollinated with it. It's early days, they have a way to go before they become studs or duds.

My seedlings have had 2 sprays with Thrive and colour is starting to improve though growth seems similar to others not sprayed, based on new growth appearing.

Everyone on the forum should have a go at breeding, it's so rewarding and I'm like an expecting father when the first bud is starting to open.

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by neptune on 10th May 2013, 07:40

Hijack
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 10th May 2013, 08:21

Thanks John, that is the one I thought was right.
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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

Post by neptune on 10th May 2013, 12:33

This is one I had to put on a another thread yesterday.......

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Re: New seedlings -Poesie

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