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True or False

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True or False

Post by paulh on 28th March 2013, 23:57

Was speaking to the man at our local Dawsons garden centre yesterday and came away with a quizzed look on my face, so my wife says.

Talking roses to him, he strongly asserted to me that rose grown in pots should only planted in a premium potting mix and that is all, absolutely no humus or manures etc. He told me that all those type of add ons only end up at the bottom and go off, causing the roots to burn etc, causing the plant to eventually die.

So what do people think, I have always been under the impression that all the good stuff in potting mixes eventually break down and with the constant draining effect of pots, all the good stuff as he put it would need to be replaced when the mix becomes deficient.
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Re: True or False

Post by neptune on 29th March 2013, 00:26

Interesting he said that......because there are potting mixes and potting mixes....his thought is probably to give the best for the roses, so give them a quality start. Then you have a look at Melville Roses home potting mix and it has manures plus in it......if you are up-potting to larger pots, then the rose is advanced a bit and can take manures(but not fresh stuff)......
Now as for the nutrients heading south, this would be for any potting mix as it is in a container and when watered, the water will take some nutrients with it as it heads south.....
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Re: True or False

Post by paulh on 29th March 2013, 02:10

Thanks neptune for that, he stressed that in his view the manures etc just settle at the bottom and go off, I guess if you had no holes in the bottom of the pot I could see his thinking. He seemed to get agitated when I suggested that making your own potting mix for roses, and told me that dawsons roses should only go in premium potting mixes
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Re: True or False

Post by neptune on 29th March 2013, 02:19

if you didn't have holes in the bottom of the pot, the roses will be swimming in water and die.........if manures etc move south in a pot , they will move south and sideways in the garden bed by the action of watering and rain....
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Re: True or False

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 29th March 2013, 05:56

Paul, I would go back and ask what happens in the garden situ, I guess the soil in the garden "stops" leaching as it is called. Manure is a material not a liquid in this scenario. Nutrients leach, soil mediums will settle if they are in a loose environment. Particles which make up our soils and for that our "potting mixes" have a natural thing in common with gravity. Potting mixes "normally" have a fare amount of bark fines in them, one the mix goes further, the other they have some water retention capacity. This is part of the way mixes "slow" down the movement of smaller particles.
Paul, if you have the time or inclination, go to Wiki or Mr G and look up "soil texture and soil structure" you could ask the same of the man at Dawson's, I would be interested to hear his reply.
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Re: True or False

Post by Balinbear on 29th March 2013, 07:50

The soil and sand particles are heavier than humus and manure and from my experience I have noticed that over time they settle to the bottom and the organic stuff "floats" on top.

I mix sand with potting mix or peat moss when doing cuttings and by time it comes around to plant (mind you some times this is quite a while) the sand is always at the bottom of the pot with the organics at the top.

One would also think that the finer particles of sand or soil in a mix would wash down through the mix and sttle at the bottom.
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Re: True or False

Post by AutumnDamask on 29th March 2013, 08:23

I'm with the others on this one.

I suspect that Dawson's are being extra cautious simply from a retail perspective - they don't want customers coming back saying the roses were no good etc. Along the lines of the "rules" on (no) manure for bare-root roses that we've discussed before. Experienced people can do certain "no-no" things very well but the nurseries and garden centres need to cater for the "lowest denominator" of "gardener".
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Re: True or False

Post by paulh on 29th March 2013, 23:18

roseman wrote:Paul, I would go back and ask what happens in the garden situ, I guess the soil in the garden "stops" leaching as it is called. Manure is a material not a liquid in this scenario. Nutrients leach, soil mediums will settle if they are in a loose environment. Particles which make up our soils and for that our "potting mixes" have a natural thing in common with gravity. Potting mixes "normally" have a fare amount of bark fines in them, one the mix goes further, the other they have some water retention capacity. This is part of the way mixes "slow" down the movement of smaller particles.
Paul, if you have the time or inclination, go to Wiki or Mr G and look up "soil texture and soil structure" you could ask the same of the man at Dawson's, I would be interested to hear his reply.

Ta for that roseman.. on to it
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Re: True or False

Post by paulh on 29th March 2013, 23:19

Balinbear wrote:The soil and sand particles are heavier than humus and manure and from my experience I have noticed that over time they settle to the bottom and the organic stuff "floats" on top.

I mix sand with potting mix or peat moss when doing cuttings and by time it comes around to plant (mind you some times this is quite a while) the sand is always at the bottom of the pot with the organics at the top.

One would also think that the finer particles of sand or soil in a mix would wash down through the mix and sttle at the bottom.

My thoughts as well
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Re: True or False

Post by paulh on 29th March 2013, 23:21

AutumnDamask wrote:I'm with the others on this one.

I suspect that Dawson's are being extra cautious simply from a retail perspective - they don't want customers coming back saying the roses were no good etc. Along the lines of the "rules" on (no) manure for bare-root roses that we've discussed before. Experienced people can do certain "no-no" things very well but the nurseries and garden centres need to cater for the "lowest denominator" of "gardener".

same thoughts here
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Re: True or False

Post by paulh on 29th March 2013, 23:29

One thing that I've experienced with at Dawsons, is that they will freely give out advice/info but are reluctant to take on board anything you have to say. A couple of examples.. one time talking to them about lowering the ph levels, after listening to the advice I suggested that apple cider vinegar would do the same job, they would not hear of it. on my next visit they had done their research and had to agree. then while discussing mites I suggested that for me the best results were obtained by using wettable sulphur, absolute rubbish they told me, that it was only good for mildew. to date I don't think they have done any research on this matter. oh well
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Re: True or False

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 30th March 2013, 05:43

Paul can you get there email address and if so send this link to them
about Sulphur,
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Re: True or False

Post by paulh on 31st March 2013, 02:45

now thats an idea roseman. will do that
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Re: True or False

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 31st March 2013, 06:08

I believe that is why the forum is here, to pass on or receive.
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Re: True or False

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