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Planting a Rose ???

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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 22nd February 2013, 23:30

Well I'll be replacing a few roses soon, where I replace each rose I will dig out the soil down to the plactic corflute, put in some gravel or bluestone, then in the hole I will put in a mixture of potting mix, cow manure, loam and maybe a handful of epsum salts, all mixed through of course, water in with seasol and see how I go.
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 23rd February 2013, 00:10

ok paul , lets try this one, but it will mean starting all over again from scratch. Do you know how the WACA and Perth Glory pitches are done so that they don't drown on heavy downpours and dry very quickly.

you need to empty your limestones beds of all soil. Now you need to put a drain trench(buy from bunnings) in which will run the water away from the bed. You might have to be inventive here and creative. now the drain will run the full length of your bed and will sit either left, right, or center.
Next, build a slope to the drain. The slope needs to be basically waterproof(concrete) and be sealed to the drain.
Cover the drain first with a small course blue metal, then a courser one....oops....first cover the drain with a filter cloth(from bunnings) to stop sand filling the trench.
Now you can backfill with soil. here I would test your system, by back filling one end with about 2-3inches of soil and then saturate it so it is basically liquid. Then see how well your system works. If all good , backfill your garden bed and you will never regret the extra hard work you put in and your roses will not have to live with soggy feet
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 23rd February 2013, 02:11

neptune wrote:ok paul , lets try this one, but it will mean starting all over again from scratch. Do you know how the WACA and Perth Glory pitches are done so that they don't drown on heavy downpours and dry very quickly.

you need to empty your limestones beds of all soil. Now you need to put a drain trench(buy from bunnings) in which will run the water away from the bed. You might have to be inventive here and creative. now the drain will run the full length of your bed and will sit either left, right, or center.
Next, build a slope to the drain. The slope needs to be basically waterproof(concrete) and be sealed to the drain.
Cover the drain first with a small course blue metal, then a courser one....oops....first cover the drain with a filter cloth(from bunnings) to stop sand filling the trench.
Now you can backfill with soil. here I would test your system, by back filling one end with about 2-3inches of soil and then saturate it so it is basically liquid. Then see how well your system works. If all good , backfill your garden bed and you will never regret the extra hard work you put in and your roses will not have to live with soggy feet

Thanks john.. there's a fair bit to mull over here.. I will have a good look at this idea. Ta
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 23rd February 2013, 06:26

Paul, you mention a path at the back of your yard/fence, any chance of a photo of it looking back at your fence. What sort of slope is there along the run of path. John has given me an idea.
You can purchase stuff called "agi drain" round pipe with a stocking over it. If your limestone bed had some fall this would work along Johns idea. You could drill a hole through the back of the limestone and attach a piece of down pipe and drain it like you would with normal down pipes from the roof.
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 23rd February 2013, 23:28

roseman wrote:Paul, you mention a path at the back of your yard/fence, any chance of a photo of it looking back at your fence. What sort of slope is there along the run of path. John has given me an idea.
You can purchase stuff called "agi drain" round pipe with a stocking over it. If your limestone bed had some fall this would work along Johns idea. You could drill a hole through the back of the limestone and attach a piece of down pipe and drain it like you would with normal down pipes from the roof.

Here is a photo, the wall goes around my whole unit..
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

john the roses only go half way around, the rest is concrete and pavers Neutral


Last edited by paulh on 24th February 2013, 00:59; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 23rd February 2013, 23:49

is that corner at bottom right part of your unit area?
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 24th February 2013, 05:53

John, from the photo Paul has shown us I am guessing the bottom right corner is the end of his property and by the brick course the land falls away from left to right. There is a small shrub/tree in the very bottom right from what eye can see. This is where I might try to drain the bed(pool).

Paul, what is the depth of the rose bed base ? What is the length from the end of the bed to the right hand corner? Paul, edit your previous photo and add measurements leaving other info if possible.
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 24th February 2013, 12:45

I was thinking the same , Dave. If he could run a drain pipe down the side near the tree, it would water the tree, be out of the way of the footpath and if he paints it a limestone color , it blends into the rock
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 24th February 2013, 12:51

Great minds think alike, pity mine is superior, but you can claim the same status. roflmao
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 24th February 2013, 13:15

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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 25th February 2013, 01:08

roseman wrote:John, from the photo Paul has shown us I am guessing the bottom right corner is the end of his property and by the brick course the land falls away from left to right. There is a small shrub/tree in the very bottom right from what eye can see. This is where I might try to drain the bed(pool).

Paul, what is the depth of the rose bed base ? What is the length from the end of the bed to the right hand corner? Paul, edit your previous photo and add measurements leaving other info if possible.

the depth of the bed is about 40cm, I thinks it would be hard to get a level to drain. i'm not sure about pulling up pavers and breaking concrete. pretty big job..

Options... (1) well I can plough and airate the soil without killing the plants
(2) I put the plastic which covers the shelf on an angle to try and get the water to drain to the front of the bed where the rest of the bed is sand. Now if I dig a trench along the front of the bed and then dig a section under the pavers and artificial grass a bit, then fill that section with potting mix to about half the depth of the bed, then put the soil on top of that, hopefully excess water will drain freely to the front and under the grass.
(3) I could just pave over the bed and put them in pots... Digger
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 25th February 2013, 06:38

Option 2 for me
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 25th February 2013, 11:45

if take two, then put blue metal on top of plastic to help with drainage
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 25th February 2013, 15:44

ok option 2 seems to be the way to go. a job for a cooler month Digger
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 25th February 2013, 23:42

roseman wrote:John, from the photo Paul has shown us I am guessing the bottom right corner is the end of his property and by the brick course the land falls away from left to right. There is a small shrub/tree in the very bottom right from what eye can see. This is where I might try to drain the bed(pool).

Paul, what is the depth of the rose bed base ? What is the length from the end of the bed to the right hand corner? Paul, edit your previous photo and add measurements leaving other info if possible.

About 20 metres roseman
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 26th February 2013, 00:10

maybe you should start doing the bed now, so that the roses are bed in by winter and then you will be right for your major prune in July or August.

If you start now ,try and get as much soil with the roots system as you can. The comeback of the bush will be a lot quicker and not as much stress on the bush
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 26th February 2013, 01:19

neptune wrote:maybe you should start doing the bed now, so that the roses are bed in by winter and then you will be right for your major prune in July or August.

If you start now ,try and get as much soil with the roots system as you can. The comeback of the bush will be a lot quicker and not as much stress on the bush

Thanks neptune, I'll start with the ones that need to be replaced, to put in fortuniana, then I'll start on the others... Digger
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 26th February 2013, 06:03

About 20 metres roseman. from Paul, sure it isn't feet, other wise you have very wide block. Hmmmm scratch
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 26th February 2013, 15:16

roseman wrote:About 20 metres roseman. from Paul, sure it isn't feet, other wise you have very wide block. Hmmmm scratch

i count out 20 large steps so i think its about 20 mts
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 28th February 2013, 00:57

I don't mind being called a slow learner because sometimes
I am, but I'm not arrogant, If I come across this way I'm sorry. I know sometimes I seem to be asking the same questions over and over. The thing is I get on the web looking up so many details my head spins, so I end up rehashing things. I do appreciate all the advice I receive here on this forum.
so this leads me into the subject of planting... today I got my new sharp pitch fork and did a trial dig in part of my rose bed. Boy, the soil is far more compacted than I first thought, I was a job breaking the soil up and the further I went down the harder it was. However I managed it, I was surprised at how dry it was down deep. I expected the soil to be soggy, but it was dry. The mistake I made was compacting the bed before planting, and to make things worse as I was back filling when planting, I would put a bit of soil in then compact it with a heavy paver. No wonder they are struggling.
So I've got some work to do to correct my boo boo's.

Anyways, I think I've decided on how I'm going to plant the new roses when replacing the others. As suggested on this forum, a 50x50 hole will be dug, in the bottom will be a layer of bluestone or gravel... t will be filled with a mixture of.. a cheap potting mix from Coles.. (I have read there is absolutely nothing much is in it).. cow manure... a soil improver that must contain clay... a cup of blood and bone... and some worm castings... then a good water of seasol...

That's it, I'll certainly will not compact the soil when planting as before.

Well peoples, I hope that this will put me on the right path for continued success..


Last edited by paulh on 28th February 2013, 02:28; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 28th February 2013, 01:42

to stop the soil from compacting, you need to make it friable. So mix in with the soil, compost , cow manure and even lucerne......

just a thought on the dryness...those big limestone blocks will absorb heat and turn the soil into an oven, hence drying out the moisture. Mind you, that warmth would be nice for the roses in winter
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 28th February 2013, 02:34

neptune wrote:to stop the soil from compacting, you need to make it friable. So mix in with the soil, compost , cow manure and even lucerne......

just a thought on the dryness...those big limestone blocks will absorb heat and turn the soil into an oven, hence drying out the moisture. Mind you, that warmth would be nice for the roses in winter

Thanks neptune.. oops I forgot to type in cow manure, probably mix
a bag of potting mix, a bag of cow manure and a bag of soil improver.
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 28th February 2013, 06:04

Paul, in one of your earlier posts you mention Melville Roses, my question to that is , how far are they from you and do they have bulk soil mixes.
I have gone back over the old photo of your fence, question,
Did you install the colour bond fence as it appears to be inside another fence.
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by neptune on 28th February 2013, 09:08

Dave, I mention Melvilles....they only sell bags of potting mix........no bulk soils
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

Post by paulh on 28th February 2013, 12:36

ta roseman mevilles is along way from my place. i am going to pay them a visit because they have a climber i want, no one near me has this rose. I also was going to get some bags of their soil improver. The colorbond fencing was put up by the builder, i guess you may mention the heat that would be coming off the metal and you would be right. unfortuneatly this is our backyard and being next to a public path it gives us security and privacy.
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Re: Planting a Rose ???

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