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Own Roots or Budded

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Own Roots or Budded

Post by Ausrose on 27th January 2013, 21:21

Over the weekend I was listening to a gardening show and the presenter commented own root roses suffer more than budded rose with die back. Although my experience is limited I haven't found this. What are other rosarian's experiences?

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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by AutumnDamask on 27th January 2013, 22:12

I would have thought that there are so many variables (individual varietial health, RMV, location, care, etc etc) it would be difficult to make such a generalisation. If that person has that as their own experience then maybe they picked the wrong roses to have own root or didn't look after them in some way...?
I've got a couple on own root that aren't doing well. I can blame the fact they were pot-bound and I would be hesitant to say it was because they were own root. Afterall the species roses do quite well on their own roots... And a lot of old roses sucker...
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 28th January 2013, 06:08

Doug, who was the presenter and show if you can please.
I think it is individual 'rose dependant'. This could be a long thread if we were to break it down to a variety level.

Morning Wendy
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by betsyw on 28th January 2013, 07:22

A sweeping generalisation, then, in the interests of brevity: Modern roses more often than not do much better on grafts for speed and performance, at least in their early years.

I follow the money here. If it were not so, then struggling producers could save on the huge labour and material costs of grafting across the board.

In the USA, there was a time not long ago when suppliers experimented with offering their HTs and floris as own root bareroots. Not just bands, but older roses too.

I don't believe it was a great success commercially. The market rejected the smaller,slower-growers, for the most part.
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by silkyfizz on 28th January 2013, 10:56

I only have a very few own roots, and with the exception of 1 plant (wrong spot I think) they are just as vigorous, if not more so, than my other roses. Just my experience.
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by betsyw on 28th January 2013, 11:03

Which own-roots do you have, silky? My noisettes are all own-root, natch, but I've never had an own-root HT personally.
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by silkyfizz on 28th January 2013, 11:25

Some reds from cuttings from dad's garden, which I think are all Mr Lincoln but could be wrong, and Susan Hampshire. This was the first rose I grew here many years ago and this plant is from a cutting of that. She's not spectacular but she is a survivor and I have a soft spot for her.
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Balinbear on 29th January 2013, 09:14

A lot our Teas and Chinas are own root and do fine. Some of the budded ones we have purchased over the years were have been replaced by cutting grown plants that we have grown with pieces from the budded plants.

Most of these were on Dr Huey rootstock which is not that flash up our way. However, the ones grown on multiflora seems to do fine and we have not had to replace any of these.
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Ausrose on 29th January 2013, 22:07

I am not sure who it was as it was on a station I normally don't listen too and I was preoccupied weeding a patch of garden that was more like a jungle than a suburban backyard. Sudden Impact is great for roses however the weeds love it too.

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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by AutumnDamask on 30th January 2013, 09:48

Balinbear wrote:
Most of these were on Dr Huey rootstock which is not that flash up our way. However, the ones grown on multiflora seems to do fine and we have not had to replace any of these.

What sort of problems do you see with the Dr Huey rootstock? (Lack of vigour, dieback, etc??) Would you associate it with your low soil pH?

Given that we also have a very low pH (4.5 - 5.0 ), granite sandy loam(ish).

I know I've a lot of problems generally that I'd put down to lack of water/fertiliser. But given that quite a few roses will be on Dr Huey... Hmmm...
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Ausrose on 30th January 2013, 13:55

The general consensus is roses do better grafted on Multi-flora along the East Coast and better on Dr Huey inland where the soils are more alkaline. Despite what I have said I don't think the difference in rootstock is that great that it relates to survival rates.

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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by hariet~rose on 30th January 2013, 20:48

heh in my garden just as many own rooted plants have carked it as have grafted.. and the biggest vigorous bush is a seafoam that i grew from a cutting (you can't get near it without it grabbing you).. i wonder ausrose about the vitality of the rootstocks as i only get Dr Huey resurrecting which makes me wonder whether the other root stocks do poorly in my district ( i am presuming that some of my dead ones were on other rootstocks as i order from SA, Tas , Qld and NSW being a rose junkie and all)
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Ausrose on 30th January 2013, 21:51

hariet~rose I don't quite understand what you mean by "as i only get Dr Huey resurrecting "

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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 30th January 2013, 22:51

IMO, when a rose is under stress for what ever reason, if it is on the Dr, the Dr will win. If a rose is on the Dr and you "happen" to bump the rootstock, the Dr will send out suckers/adventitious shoots. Which in turn reduces the plant we are after unless cut off totally.
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by hariet~rose on 31st January 2013, 07:29

well by resurrecting i mean when frost has killed the graft and then some time later the plant re-shoots (sometimes many months later), the reshoots are Dr Huey... nice flowers but i don't want that many of them!
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Ausrose on 31st January 2013, 08:09

Thank you hariet~rose. On what you have said the evidence is Dr Huey is more vigorous than other root stock in your area. On my experience on the east coast both Dr Huey and Multiflora resurrect however Dr Huey tends to sucker more than Multiflora.

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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Carole on 31st January 2013, 10:15

We have lots of Dr. Huey that used to be other roses
Mind you Mudgee has far more Dr Huey than any other rose.
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Ozeboy on 5th February 2013, 00:57

Both understocks mentioned are vigorous here in Sydney though I use Multiflora for several reasons.

Multiflora is thornless, strikes well, less liable to sucker and is very compatable with most modern roses grafted on it.

Dr. Huey has thorns, strikes well, will sucker quite badly, I am not happy with it's compatability as some roses grafted on it seem die prematurely around 10 years. At the point of sale it looks more vigorous so can understand nurseries using it. And lastly everyone complains about it.

There is little known about understock compatability with different types of roses. The CSIRO did a trial on T budded and Chip budding resulting in chip budding superior but I have not seen anything trialed by them on compatability.

Would appear one needs to use the understock that suits our soil and local growing condittions.


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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by neptune on 5th February 2013, 01:10

just like our Fortunana for our conditions...drought resistant
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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by Ozeboy on 5th February 2013, 12:30

Neptune I have a lot of Fortuniana (Thorn type) growing here and have difficulty striking the cuttings because of damping off. A friend in WA has given me details on how he strikes it but still have problems with it here. I have grafted it onto multiflora but get 6 or so canes coming from the graft so this would be a big problem with suckering.
Commercially I need to get 90% success or it's not viable. Would be nice to give it a trial so will give it another try. I have confidence in an understock bred by Simon Voorwinde with the sole purpose of using it as an understock. My main interest in this rose is compatability so only time will tell.
I have one concern regarding Fortuniana and that is natural root grafting because it's roots can be up to 25 feet long. A virused rose could be growing in a bed of 10 others and might infect them underground. Who knows, everything is possible when viruses are there.

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Re: Own Roots or Budded

Post by betsyw on 5th February 2013, 17:02

Ozeboy, have cut, pasted and saved your excellent post on understock.
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