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Propagation experiment...

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Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 3rd February 2009, 01:39

I'm doing a little series of experiments on a different method of striking cuttings of grafted material. Stage one is to test it on non-grafted material to see if it will work or not (before I go chopping up budded material).

First I'm pegging down long canes to cause the upper lateral buds to grow straight up like this:

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This is on a multiflora stem and it is only a few weeks since pegging it down that this, and others like it, began shooting. Actual size is about 7-8cm. This was this morning before I cut it off.

Then I cut the stem off and further cut it up into smaller sections including only about 1cm of the main stem on either side of the shooting bud like this:

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I was reading an article on striking rose cuttings by Mr Ralph Moore in which he said he uses a slanting cut up behind a bud because there is a lot of undifferentiated tissue behind the bud that can quickly differentiate into roots if given the chance and by cutting at an angle from about 2-3cm below the bud up to behind the bud he was able to significantly improve the success of his cuttings. So I am doing something similar. I am wounding the main portion of the stem under the bud to increase the surface area of the callous and hopefully capitalise on this mass of undifferentiated material located around and behind the bud. Like this:

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Then I just popped them in a pot of propagating sand, watered them, left most the leaves on them, and put the pot in a fish tank with a lid to maintain a high level of humidity (because there is a lot of fresh new growth that would wilt quickly otherwise). This tank is in my shed under a 105w hydro light (6500K) on a timer with a 12hr photoperiod. I'm misting it about three times a day with a small spray bottle of water + dilute fungicide.

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The aim of this is to see where it roots from. I am hoping it will root from the main stem portion of the cutting from the wound. If that works then I'll go to the next stage and test some budded material. I budded a few buds onto a long multiflora stem:

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I am hoping that the horizontal orientation will force the parent plant to redirect a large amount of its resources into the buds and they will take quickly and begin to grow straight up as in the first photo. Then, once they are growing nicely, up around 15cm long (which is taller than the test ones but I want to make sure the bud union has taken properly and maybe harden off a little too), then I'll cut them off and prepare them as above, plant them as above, and see if I can utilise the easier striking ability of the small multiflora part of it to increase my chances of success. The graft will always be below the ground, there are no other multiflora eyes anywhere on the main bit of stem so the only suckers would come from adventitious buds forming on something like the roots. I think over time it would probably end up growing like an own root rose too.


Last edited by TasV on 4th February 2009, 17:57; edited 5 times in total

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 3rd February 2009, 02:01

This is the link to the article written by Mr Ralph Moore: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Ozeboy on 4th February 2009, 19:20

Simon, I like it, slow but could work well with the Multiflora heel. I think Ralph Moore might have come up with a way to root difficult roses that have proved almost impossible to ownroot.
The good thing is it's as economical as budding (Sion useage ) and produces a lot more own root compared to just planting a cutting using all the sion wood. I can't see any reason why the Multiflora heel won't root first followed by the budded shoot
Three cheers for Ralph Moore. I'm still impressed.

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 4th February 2009, 21:31

Yes, Mr Moore is still, at 102 years old, one of the sharpest minds in the business and someone I really look up to. He's a legend cheers

The reason I was going to try this was because I have in the back of my mind a setup that looks a little like a vineyard... where I have multiflora plants planted along a fence-like structure, like star pickets with 4 or 5 wires strained between them, and espalliered so they make lots of long horizontal stems. Then I can go along and bud onto these, 4,5,6,7 or more to a stem (maybe one on each internode) at a comfortable height and let the host plant do the rest. The multiflora I have is a thornless one so is pleasant to work with and smells lovely (lots of little red oil glands that make a lovely pine-needle-like fragrance). Theoretically I guess you could get quite a lot of plants from a single host this way and I like the idea that the horizontal nature would push the buds along and maybe even help to increase my chances of budding success or even make it happen faster. Who knows... will be interesting to see how it goes. The other thing I was thinking might happen is that I might be able to bud twice a year because the multiflora shoots grow so quickly that I could bud at the beginning of Summer and again at the beginning of autumn... I don't know how they'd respond to being espalliered like this though...

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 4th February 2009, 23:11

Simon, we will try this again,[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]this I assume this is the final product, why not try this,as in this picture you have budded and cut the bottom of the cambium layer. Can I suggest you leave the entire cane in situ, allow the bud to shoot,root and then go to your third idea[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.],cut it off, it should have enough callus on the bottom and then the ends should callus and produce more roots. I hope the order of pictures are right. Roseman [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 4th February 2009, 23:28

Done what I thought would work, I guess not
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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 4th February 2009, 23:47

This would have worked except the images you've linked to are sitting on your C drive on your computer. To get them live they first need to be hosted by someone or uploaded. I've sent you a PM with an offer to call me if you like and I'll walk you through getting pics on here like a pro Thumbsup

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by rosemeadow on 5th February 2009, 00:39

Thanks for putting that article of Ralph Moores here, I am very grateful and will start doing my cuttings as he does. Its very good to learn from wise peoples experience

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Guest on 6th February 2009, 12:49

Oooooh I might try a few like that from my climbers Smile

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 6th February 2009, 19:45

I'm going to try it on this newly taken bud of 'Dainty Bess' (one of yours BD):

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By the time the above cuttings have taken I reckon this one will be about right to snip off.

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 17th March 2009, 19:40

Well.... I don't think this was such a great idea after all!!! Might be great for growing normal cuttings but I don't think it will be great for trying to strike grafted plants.

I tipped the cuttings out today. Two of the three grew roots. Both of the cuttings that struck grew roots in the same way... from the TOP of the main stem around the base of the bud NOT from the wound or the piece of multiflora stem left on it.

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Great roots but not what I was hoping for scratch they will make great rootstocks next spring/summer though Idea

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by orchid40 on 17th March 2009, 20:09

Well that looks like a good idea for growing normal cuttings. Lots of new growth around at the moment so I'll see what I can get.
Val

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 18th March 2009, 06:25

Simon, in the last 2 pics is the shoot from a bud of "dainty bess" or of a bud from the rootstock.
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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 18th March 2009, 18:26

These are all multiflora shoots from the first photos David. There are buds of Dainty Bess (1), Pierre de Ronsard ( 8 ), Pink Iceberg (1), Fantin Latour(1), a couple of Teas(4), Sparrieshoop(1) and a lone gigantea bud that I thought was dead that suddenly burst all ready to try but now that I have seen this I'll have to rethink how I do it... will probably just do it the conventional way now and try to strike the multiflora section with a few eyes on it.

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 18th March 2009, 21:55

Simon, what would stop you placing buds of a rose on a small piece of rootstock to see if it would put out adventurous roots with the support of it. Unless this is what you have done I like the idea. My other thought was if you left one eye of rootstock and place one eye of chosen rose on same length.
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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Admin on 18th March 2009, 22:47

I'm not sure I understand what you mean scratch Do you mean graft a bud onto a rootstock cane and then peg it down to see if I could layer it so that it can still be nourished by the parent plant until the grafted bud section could form it's own roots like on the ones above? I hadn't thought of that! I think that would be worth trying too Thumbsup What do you think of the idea of trying an aerial layer of the union where the bud is made... the callous material around the graft might also assit in forming roots... hmmmm... I just had an idea Idea ... when you do a T-graft and you slide the scion in and wrap it up after a while you notice callous tissue forming around the bud in much the same way as a scab forms on a wound on our own bodies. I wonder if this callous material, which I assume is multiflora in origin, could itself differentiate and form roots because a callous is like a cell without a job... it forms and takes its instructions from the cells around it to form whatever is needed at the time. hmmmm... I feel another experiment coming on Wink

You second idea is what I was going to do now that I've seen the results of this little experiment. I'll cut it off below the next eye below the graft and do what Mr Moore describes in the articel above and make a wound up under the eye to try and encourage rooting from that point. I'm going to allow them to get a bit longer first before trying this so there are more leaves to help support the cutting.

hmmm... Hmmmm

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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 19th March 2009, 06:52

Simon, with the bottom picture, if the same was done to say "Mrs R H", would not the roots come out as per. From memory cells at this point can change to suit, more talk later, I will try to explain more after the grapes come off.
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Re: Propagation experiment...

Post by Alee on 19th March 2009, 12:21

Tasv and Roseman, this is a very interesting experiment.

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Re: Propagation experiment...

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