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What causes HTs to form sprays?

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What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by betsyw on 2nd January 2013, 07:46

My Firefighters reliably produce singles on long stems. Suddenly one FF is throwing long, long canes with trusses of buds. Nice but peculiar. Any reason for this, or just one of the vagaries of Nature (is there grandiflora ancestry in there somewhere?)
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by Ozeboy on 2nd January 2013, 09:16

Betsyw, You can push most HT's into good growth with fertiliser and twice weekly deep watering. Firefighter like most reds can produce very long water shoots with up to 10 blooms on the one new cane.

Would appear your care is very good so beware FF needs to be staked or you can get blowoffs. When the forcast is for strong wind it's better to cut the top off the shoot if no stakes are available. Better to vase the blooms and retain the new cane on the bush.

I'm on a hill where wind can be very damaging. Have seen a 3 year old grafted HT split the understock down the middle. One cane to the right and one to the left with both almost laying on the ground.

I don't know where you are in NSW but could suggest buying all your stake requirements from "All Stake Supply" at Riverstone.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] PH 02 9627 3699

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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by betsyw on 2nd January 2013, 09:55

Wowowowow. Such great advice, Ozeboy. Have just gone out and lopped off the FF sprays and added a stake. FF looks remarkably strong, even stakeless - those canes are extremely thick.But I also noticed the Valencia side canes had started to loll, so they are staked now too. One of the Baronne Ed Rothschilds threw up two trussed canes two days ago as well, and I have lopped those for the vase, too, although Ed's flowers don't care for my vases much, and will be saggy by tomorrow, no doubt.

My place is in a dimple between two ridges, so wind is not a big problem here. Having said that, I watched a hanging basket of cherry tomatoes torn to pieces by the small gale of a few days ago.

Thanks again Ozeboy!
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by Ozeboy on 2nd January 2013, 20:49

betsyw, when those new water shoots have hardened off well you can remove the stake.

There are exceptions like the fellow I visited 4 months ago who had HT's growing up to 7 feet with what appeared to be 15 canes coming from the understock. These were about 4' in diameter and just covered in blooms.
In cases like this the water shoots are more protected. I have never seen roses grown as well anywhere else. He will remain nameless but I'm sure these are the best grown roses one would ever see anywhere.

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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by betsyw on 3rd January 2013, 07:34

What are water shoots, as opposed to other new shoots? I've never been clear on this point
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by Ozeboy on 3rd January 2013, 08:56

betsyw, water shoots are those soft new canes that come usually from the crown or graft. They are really long and have more blooms than their soft growth can support. When the wind blows they can break off at the crown or graft. When roses are left alone and not forced with fertilisers blow offs are less common.
Exhibition growers want the very best blooms and know very well how to look after their new water shoots. These are the canes that will be the best next season.

A lot of my roses became untidy due to under pruning so last winter I cut them back hard. This season has produced a lot of new growth and with plenty of water, fertiliser like poultry litter and Sudden Impact blow offs could have been a problem unless staked.

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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by betsyw on 3rd January 2013, 14:41

From all this excellent information, ozeboy, I'm thinking that I should lay off the fertiliser for a while, and let the roses toughen up a bit, is that agood idea?
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by neptune on 3rd January 2013, 15:01

depending when you last fertilized?
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by betsyw on 3rd January 2013, 15:17

I feed the potted ones once a week, rotating food types - bit of ordinary stuff, bit of fancy stuff, a dash of potash here, a bit of seasol there. The inground noisettes just fend for themselves most weeks. I don'te ven consider thjem to be roses anymore, just fabulous flowering climbing plants
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 3rd January 2013, 15:56

OGR are better Betsy as they require less work roflmao . What is your soil type. IMO I think you could be over feeding and maybe watering. The over watering makes surface roots not tap type roots which will sustain the roses in the temps you are having, again this is only my opinion
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by silkyfizz on 3rd January 2013, 22:41

Twice a week deep watering when it's hot (like now) and pots every day, sometimes twice daily. Is this too much guys?
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by maree on 3rd January 2013, 23:05

Silky , i water twice weekly and give them a extra drink when its going to be 40 degrees , in the winter i don't water at all , last year i was watering , once a week and i had a lot less blooms , the front roses are on a retaining wall and the water drains away very quickly , so i water them more often too ....
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by silkyfizz on 3rd January 2013, 23:16

Maree, like you, since I have increased water I have found a lot more blooms. The bushes themselves just look less stressed after high temps and generally happier.
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by Ozeboy on 4th January 2013, 08:33

I always water deep down or not water at all. My soil is light so 24 hours after heavy rain there's no water to be seen. How you water depends on your soil, the weather or season. Water logged soil is as bad as not watering at all. My fertiliser program is Sudden Impact and poultry litter August, December and end of March. Too much will burn the roots so don't over do it. If new to rose growing then try palm down filling the hand with Sudden Impact, use this amount once a month. As the bushes mature increase the amount of fertiliser. A large three year old 'Elina' should get more than a small bush like 'Sweet Inspiration'. If you drop the fertiliser around the drip line it's obvious the larger roses will get a little more.

There's no hard and fast rule as each season is different regards weather, bugs etc. The experienced people on this forum know by the look of the soil and roses what to do next to keep the plants at their best. There's a lady up in the villiage who uses the grey water from her sewerage system and I'm envious of the great growth she has nearly all year round.

Buy yourself a good capacity chipper and recycle everything through the
compost heap. Use Lucerne hay or chaff either mixed with potting mix, soil or hay as a mulch. Another Idea is to bore a lot of 1/2" holes in a plastic container like a black plastic recycle bin and 90% bury the bin in the centre if your rose garden. Fit a weatherproof lid and cut a piece of carpet to the size of the bin to fit on top of the vegetable type household
scraps. The worms will come and go from the compost bin and just observe what is happening to the roses around.
The idea is to improve the quality of the soil without over fertilising and nil use of pestercides. Go GO juice can be added to the bin and soil as it is bacteria, fungi and good nematodes that keep your soil healthy.

The more experienced gardeners specially those involved in exhibition have their own little tricks to get perfect blooms on healthy plants. Hope the above helps some of the new gardeners grow better roses.

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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by dannyboy on 4th January 2013, 10:06

Great Advice Ozeboy.With the Manure like you said got to be carefull to use it as it burns.I have been using Powerfeed by seasoil this season as I have alot of young roses and have had great results.Then for the older roses I have been using Amgrow Rose food which has also been good.

I have a big bag of fertilizer pellets like Dynamic lifter,same contents but different brand and it contains Chook Manure etc.I was thinking maybe using it on the roses next season but not sure ??.

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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by betsyw on 4th January 2013, 10:23

Wow again. You always have such great info, Ozeboy. I love your instructions on creating a rich natural environment for your roses/garden. Of course I will never act on these execllent concepts, because I am possessed of a measly 22 roses, two of which I could toss tomorrow, and the rest I like to handfeed. Also I am dead lazy, and very bad at house and garden craftwork. Still, I sit at your feet and learn plenty.
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by silkyfizz on 4th January 2013, 11:49

Wonderful advice Ozeboy.
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 4th January 2013, 13:30

They talk about pampered pooches or cats. Some of you girls amaze me ,when and if I come back I want to be free flowering smelly hybrid with good vase life. roflmao
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by neptune on 4th January 2013, 13:59

roseman wrote: and if I come back I want to be free flowering smelly hybrid with good vase life. roflmao

Dave , you can come back to my garden......I would pamper the hell out of you,....but......first I would stick you in the ground and feed you s#*t to see how you grow........ roflmao
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 4th January 2013, 15:09

Hope you like grey coloured blooms
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by silkyfizz on 4th January 2013, 16:12

lol!
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

Post by neptune on 4th January 2013, 17:13

roseman wrote:Hope you like grey coloured blooms

I don't mind Heritage Rose...they have some sort of beauty with age.....
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Re: What causes HTs to form sprays?

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