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Perseverance or just bite the bullet

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Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by paulh on 13th December 2012, 23:02

After much learning, much advice seeking, I can now see the roses in my garden that are not on Fortuniana root stock, which here in Perth is essential for a roses success. The start of so promising, then they die back, come good and then die back and so the circle of disappointment continues. I can clearly see the plants that I have bought that were not purchased at a nursery that guarantees Fortuniana roses.

So what does one do, persevere with the status quo, or bite the bullet, cut your losses, rip them out and replace them....Hmmm this could be quite an expensive exercise...I wish I had this knowledge of roses when I first started out. Stunned
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by neptune on 14th December 2012, 01:44

perservere as long as you can...as you said, it is an expensive hobby
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by paulh on 14th December 2012, 02:01

neptune wrote:perservere as long as you can...as you said, it is an expensive hobby

Keep on keeping on Neptune
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 14th December 2012, 05:56

Paul, for what is worth from my perspective, I would persevere, but with a couple of bits added. You mentioned in another thread about this old rose grower. Does he grow on 'fortuniana' and if so ask him to bud the roses that are not on it, minimal cost I would think. I would also ask him to show you how it is done(it is relatively easy). The other way you could find some 'fortuniana' and do some yourself(budding).
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by maree on 14th December 2012, 09:36

Pardon , me for being a ignoramus , but what are the different rootstocks and why is fortuniana better than others , and if so , why don't all growers use it ? Paul , sorry to hear of your plight , i think i have learned along the way , after spending lots of money , which nurserys i would buy from , Swanes would definately be one , my roses from them have all been healthy , the other nurserys i have used , i have had bad experiences with . I have had my ups and downs with roses too , thats why this page is so good , because you understand what has gone wrong ...
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by Carole on 14th December 2012, 09:48

Maree. roflmao your not being an ignoramus.
Fortuniana is the rootstock to use in the soils round Perth (Neptune) could help with this. I think the soil is very sandy.
Here in the central west of NSW we use multiflora. Down south they seem to use Dr Huey. So it is rootstocks for soiltypes.
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by maree on 14th December 2012, 09:55

Thanks Carole , so should you ideally buy from a grower in your home State ? The roses i have bought from nursery in Victoria haven't been so good , while the ones i bought from Swanes have been good , very confusing lol
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by betsyw on 14th December 2012, 11:00

Paul, the rootstock of your roses shouldn't be a factor.

For starters, if you are growing in containers, the depth and width and soil preference of the rootstock doesn't matter, because potting mix and the container create a level playing field.

In the garden bed, it shouldn't be a decisive factor either. Fortuniana grows wide and shallow, and in the US is used extensively in the south, where it is resistant to the evil southern soil nematodes. Dr Huey is favoured by the nematode-free Northeast and central North , where its long deep roots can survive freezes and winter snows. Sounds like good Dr is popoular in Tas for reasons of climate too?

But Australia doesn't have big climate extremes like the USA. With the right adjustments to watering and soil pH, I can't see why the type of rootstock would be super critical inb atightly controlled suburban garden bed. A consideration, but not a deal breaker

Which roses are you finding to be good/bad in cycles? Some roses are like that, I think. Even the much lauded Pope John Paul. Can have a great season, then a poor first quarter or two of its second season, then bounces back.
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by maree on 14th December 2012, 11:24

Funny , you should say that Betsy , cause this year PJP11 , has certainly not been as prolific as last year and i was thinking the same thing , its making way for a water feature that i have in mind to enhance that garden bed , so bye bye PJP11 soon ...
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by neptune on 14th December 2012, 11:27

Fortuniana is ideal for WA coastal region and the sandy soil. Its main feature is that it is drought resistance.......
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by Carole on 14th December 2012, 11:38

Oooops sorry, I didn't know Paul grows his roses in pots Betsy, so as far as I know potting mix's are the same anywhere. So rootstock shouldn't be an issue.
For roses in the ground in WA Neptune is your man.
As for other rootstocks I will get David to answer.
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by maree on 14th December 2012, 11:47

This is a interesting thread Carole , as i know nothing about how roses are grown , i usually really improve the soil here , so probably not much left of the clay base that is typical of this area , so i'm guessing shouldn't make much difference either ...
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by paulh on 14th December 2012, 13:12

roseman wrote:Paul, for what is worth from my perspective, I would persevere, but with a couple of bits added. You mentioned in another thread about this old rose grower. Does he grow on 'fortuniana' and if so ask him to bud the roses that are not on it, minimal cost I would think. I would also ask him to show you how it is done(it is relatively easy). The other way you could find some 'fortuniana' and do some yourself(budding).

Ahh! Roseman i dont know if i would be experienced enough to do that
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by paulh on 14th December 2012, 13:28

Thanks peoples for your imput. I was having a chat with a lady from Dawsons about this issue. I mentioned that root stock shoudn't be an issue when roses are grown in pots. Well, she corrected me and told me that the fortuniana as well as coping with our soils they also will handle the hot weather we have here, and are also resistant to nemitodes,that will make there way into pots. So for her it is just as important to have the right root stock even in pots. Now the old rose guy i have mentioned told me the same thing about the root stock and heat in pots..
Well peoples i'm a novice so i'm always keen for advice.

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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by betsyw on 14th December 2012, 13:44

Wow, nematodes in pots! How evil is THAT? Good info to have, Paul. I didn't even know you guys had nematodes, much less urbaniused ones ;-))

As for tolerating heat, yes Fort is great, but how much hotter is your area than mine, for instance? To me it would be the nematode issue in yoru area that would make Fort almost required in yr region.

I happen to like Fortuniana as an old rose on its own. You find it in small town cemetaries in the American South. There's a beautiful big wild bush near my grandparents' graves in North Carolina
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by Carole on 14th December 2012, 14:41

Paul. I think most of us novices ( in my case less than novice) when it comes to WA. By plane we are about 9 hrs from you I think, so you are very, very different in climate etc from us.
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Re: Perseverance or just bite the bullet

Post by paulh on 14th December 2012, 23:14

betsyw wrote:Wow, nematodes in pots! How evil is THAT? Good info to have, Paul. I didn't even know you guys had nematodes, much less urbaniused ones ;-))

As for tolerating heat, yes Fort is great, but how much hotter is your area than mine, for instance? To me it would be the nematode issue in yoru area that would make Fort almost required in yr region.

I happen to like Fortuniana as an old rose on its own. You find it in small town cemetaries in the American South. There's a beautiful big wild bush near my grandparents' graves in North Carolina

Here up north, about 40 kms from Perth, you can get 20 days or more of temps of 35 or more. It gets very dry, we don't get much rain and its always windy,
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