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Rose Mosaic Virus

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by AutumnDamask on 5th November 2012, 18:25

I was under the impression that root-root transmission is probably possible but is pretty rare?

I know I have a few with varying degrees of leaf chlorosis but damned if I'm going to dig every single one up. I may do the worst couple (since they aren't my favs any way). Most of my infected ones are DAs and that is possibly a partial result of the popularity of the varieties and how much propagation has been done with them.

It is entirely possible that the worst-case varieties have several types of virus whereas some of the other not-so-obvious ones may only have one. *shrug* Dunno.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 5th November 2012, 18:38

Just be careful...RMV is transferrable and over time you may lose everything......something to keep in mind......
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by AutumnDamask on 5th November 2012, 19:22

I was under the impression that it's really only transferable by the way of grafting ( = blood transfusion!) rather than "casual contact".

( Simon's original rant: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 5th November 2012, 19:33

It can spread through vegetative propagation of roses when virus-infected tissue is grafted to healthy tissue. Although it is not transmitted by contact between plants, it may be transmitted by mechanical inoculation
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by AutumnDamask on 5th November 2012, 20:12

What's your definition of "mechanical inoculation" ?
Bearing in mind that I am not doing any grafting.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 5th November 2012, 21:10

Please read all Henry's links carefully. I am always impressed with his vast knowledge regarding all aspects of roses. The fact that viruses have been found in Species roses is something to ponder on. Gone is the idea that old roses grown totally from cuttings will be virus free.Even the seed grown mother plants might become infected in a short time. But all we can do is replace them every 4 or 5 years.

Autumn Damask, I have heard a similar term when inoculating chickens with a live or dead virus to prevent disease. This treatment is done with a double needle to administer the right amount of vaccine to the wound made by the needles. I would think in roses they are describing the way the virus is passed on by using tools to enter the rind where the sap is running. Almost like putting it into the blood stream of a person. Please don't hold me to this, just a wild guess.

David I did try to post on this topic but couldn't so thought you had shut down the topic. How poor of me to think that. You always come up trumps after I make reference to something you may have done. Looks like the Mackers coffee is on me when we meet again.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 5th November 2012, 21:17

apart from passing on the disease thru budding , but also rubbing the pathogens onto open wounds of another plant....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 5th November 2012, 22:01

I'm just your back yard rose grower , i did know about RMV , after i researched it several years ago , when i discovered my DAs had it badly . I had a whole front and back yard full of roses , and loved them , loved the fragrance and beautiful blooms , once i discovered there was a virus , plus BS , plus mildew , plus thrips and aphids it all got too hard and i pulled out half of them . I joined this page wanting to learn how to look after the roses i still have ,and it has been a wonderful learning experience, my love of roses hasn't waned , but i realise they have problems , just like growing vegies , fruit trees , natives etc . The roses i have will have to stay put for now , until i see how bad this RMV is , poor little Aoteroa has it , i'll just wait till pruning time next year and assess it then .......
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 5th November 2012, 22:20

Maree ask me in 6to12 months time re 'Aotearoa'

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 5th November 2012, 23:07

If I were to complain about having purchased RMV roses, this would probably get results. Enter with purpose in your step but not quickly.
Then ask for the manager.Be well dressed, very cool and no raving. When he appears and you have his full attention say, " I have purchased faulty merchandise from your store (Nursery)". "They are faulty merchandise due to virus infection". Don't add more or be drawn into conversation. Be very direct and when the manager has said his piece just turn around and mention "I will be taking this matter further", take 5 steps toward the door
then half turn and glance back to say "Can't we settle this simply now".

There is a law protecting consumers re faulty merchandise and they know it so use those words. I have managed several large retail stores and the complaints are usually made to the manager. I used to love attending to the ravers and could usually win should their complaint be unreasonable.
The super cool one mentioned above is the real danger for you could most probably get fined or a please explain from the govt body.
Both my ever loving daughters (In their 30"s) are both Lawyers and when speaking to opposing solicitors they are verbal killers. Just cool precise, dressd in suits
hair tied back and a $1000 dollars worth of extras including facials, nails expensive jewelery etc. How impressive these two are when returning merchandise. The Lawers credit cards also speak volumes.

Did you see "The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo" dressed like a mental patient? Now there was a super cool one for getting her way around people.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 5th November 2012, 23:07

No worries Ozeboy !!!!! Shall do ....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Jac2 on 6th November 2012, 08:52

Bruce, Iím pretty resilient to the facts of life and hadnít really perceived these curious patterns as a concern, and therefore made no efforts to correct them and didnít incur any related costs, but can see what you mean: we should be able to recognize RMV symptoms so that we donít go and do that. At my end, I hadnít noticed any reductions in growth or blooms, but of course, thereís no way of knowing what my roses might be Ö

Iím afraid I did not buy these roses from a reputed grower, but a local nursery within a shopping center and I donít think the individual roses would be easily traced back to the grower, because the barcodes donít even read their names at the checkout (just red, white, etc. rose); thatís how so many of them come to be mislabeled. I was not going to buy any more roses there anyway, because their miss-rate was absolutely staggering; actually funny, because is was a surprise when the rose I bought actually showed up; and I did not just buy those four roses there, that was just one dayís purchase.
I was asking you for the name of the overseeing body that is governing rose growing and distribution in Australia, so that I could write a letter to them, instead of dealing with staff that have very little knowledge or training in these matters, which I would find far more frustrating than MV. They would be sufficiently qualified to identify and contact the grower; surely, that would be part of their function.

Bruce, alerting people to their problem is only one step towards your goal of controlling RMV in Australia; another would include providing them with an action plan that they can follow through, once motivated. Just telling them, theyíve got a problem, without offering a reasonable solution to it might inspire some to shoot the messenger, and thatís getting you nowhere. Youíve done both, identified a problem and given us effective steps to take and generate results, well done.
What is the governing body that regulates rose growing and distribution?

Maree, that Aoteroa of yours is SO stunning; please donít go and pull that one out. There isnít actually any evidence that this virus is transmitted from one rose to others. Only one study alluded to the possibility that it may be transmitted by nematodes via the root system, and those findings were inconclusive. Most studies found the only way to transmit the virus was via Ďdirtyí equipment during the budding and grafting process. Unless a rose actually doesnít grow or bloom, thereís no reason to destroy it. But you should definitely contact the grower about all the substandard roses you bought from them in the past, and that is more urgent than removing roses with the virus. You know, let it out on the people who sold you those roses and not on the roses. (Ah, and donít forget to get yourself tattooed before you show up there).
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 6th November 2012, 11:30

Jac2, you have a wonderful way with words, don't think the tatoo will be necessary, just the attitude. Where to start?? Try the Nursery Traders Assoc and get their views on virused plants being realesed by growers.
Then find out what the current law is with Consumer Affairs and what action you can take when buying further products.

What to do with current virused plants in your Garden?? That's up to you.

I'm ill with the Flu so will have to go and lie down. Will leave this for further discussion

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 6th November 2012, 18:34

Jac2 , no i don't have the heart to pull out my Aoteroa , cause i do like it very much , i think though from now on i will allow a bit more spacing between roses , just for peace of mind . I had actually forgotten about RMV cause i hadn't seen it on any of my roses since the disaster with my DA 's which were full of it , and i had just spotted it on my Aoteroa a couple of days ago and i thought , oh no surely not .... But you are right , tonight i went and checked my mums roses and about three of hers have it , its not too bad and her roses look fine and they have been there for years , but i'm with Ozeboy and you , its not fair that we pay a lot of money for a rose that could potentailly be sick .I have bought all of my roses from reputable growers and paid big money for them , from now on , i'll be keeping my receipts too , like you and asking about virus free plants . Keep up the good work Jac , you'r amazing .......
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 7th November 2012, 06:45

This is how I do/would trace things in my life. I do them in a specific order no matter what I am looking for, it is just a set of steps I follow. I will name any nursery. Lets say I live in Mudgee, we have an independent nursery(1), the B one(2), The W one which starts with a B(3), I also can purchase online from many nurseries(4).

1, they most probably get supplied from the bigger rose grower No 4
2, they the b and the W are "normally supplied by one wholesale grower from S.A. and these are in "body bags" as they are referred to.
4. Multiple to choose from, I normally stay with one. I have heard they do purchase so plants in, I can't verify this tho.


So you have the basics to my avenue of purchase. As we are a wide bunch with all theses options I will use No 1, this can be substituted for any of the others. This is how it goes.

I walk into nursery, say hello to staff, look at plants/roses, like rose X pick it up look at the overall plant, especially the bud union, check tag, sees a known nursery tag No 4, pay staff take it home, plant it. Time goes by and develops a problem, maybe it be(RMV) or other, I contact staff at nursery, they apologize, I ask from whom it came. I contact No4 and explain my problem, the person I speak to can.t help, I ask to go up the ladder till I get to maybe the manager, higher if needed, explain the problem, send details and photo. Await return correspondence. No4 says it is a problem/not a problem. I ask how the problem is to be addressed, they say they will isolate(try) the infected plants, possible test/remove/look more into the disease(RMV) work with other nurseries, industry groups, possible government bodies. That's the good side.
No4 rebukes my problem, I go to the nursery body and explain to them and appropriate government body. I also explain to No4 that the old fashioned "word of mouth" will now be invoked, I would also submit letters to every journal related to roses/nurseries with subsequent literature supporting my problem.

From here we see what publicity it gets, we are not finished until I am satisfied with the outcome, not only for myself, but others that might have the problem and how to address it.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 7th November 2012, 22:22

thanks for advice Roseman ....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Jac2 on 8th November 2012, 12:48

Bruce, Iíve had a preliminary look and may have identified a possible contact within an appropriate authority in QLD/Australia. In order to build my argument that RMV in the Australian nursery stock must be investigated and controlled, I need some threat the millions of infected roses that flood the market each year present to native flora and preferably fauna as well. Do you have any related peer reviewed material? This should be more substantial than the mere suggestion that inexperienced gardeners may respond by over-using N-P-K based fertilizers, and citing all the related problems in that area. However, if anybody has some articles on the rigmarole behind the recent reductions of potash in fertilizers, those might also be useful. Keeping in mind, the people who look into theses issues do not ďfeelĒ the same way about roses as we do, and function within a framework of the bigger picture, I need more than my mere disappointment with the infected roses I purchased, seeing theyíre no longer as frilly or photogenic as expected.

Maree, if your roses were ordered over the Internet, youíd still have your receipts in the email account somewhere; these records go back for yearsÖ
Glad to hear your Aoteroa is safe, Iím with you and AutumnD: now that I know my bushes are potentially week, Iíll respond to that by giving them extra water/mulch/manure and keep an eye on them; but can see how people who grow roses specifically for the purpose of exhibiting them at shows would have no option but to replace them. A different situation, but neither should accept RMV.
Part of the reason as to why we pay big $ for our roses is that the risk of seeing bad stock returned is already factored into their prices. Growers not only know that some of their roses are infected with x, y, z, but also have a very clear picture of how many, but canít tell which ones at the time of dispatch. You could order three and have them all infected or get 30 perfect roses, itís quite random. I have occasionally speculated if that ratio was by any chance reflected in the special offers that apply once a certain number of roses is exceed on the order. That shows a willingness to negotiate and I donít doubt for a moment any growerís full intention to make good on flawed stock. You just have to let them know, it happened to you Ö

I didnít think I would get far going back to the local nursery, David, because they never made any claims about their roses being guaranteed, and were also supplied by a couple of different big suppliers as well as some local growers. I had a look at the bags: some of them had logos and contact details and many were just plain. Two different growers also supplied the Austins, but the second showed up later in the season and I bought mine in the last week of May. I have also noticed that one large company has now specialized in twisting roses into their body bags, subcontracting to other growers who now outsource this service, making it potentially even harder to trace the roses back to their origin, as such detail doesnít show on the receipt. I guess something I learned is to keep the bags as well, at least until the blooms show.
But with such a good action plan, I will follow this one up, if only out of curiosity, to see if this grower can be traced, and what they propose could be done about their staggering record. (On my very best behaviour, cool as a cucumber, and with the nicest possible but firm tone) I will be satisfied with no less than a replacement of healthy roses that fit the description on the labels I bought. Even though I have already replaced my Papa at the inflated potted priceÖ
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 8th November 2012, 16:21

Jac, send me details by email/PM and we can go through this step by step. I need the end, which is the start, the nursery/person who you handed your cold hard cash/plastic to.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 8th November 2012, 18:09

Jac2 , i pulled out the DA's a couple of years ago , think i'm going to have to wear the losses from that nursery along with my sickly Papa , from same nursery . The Aoteroa i bought from a different nursery will email them with a complaint , thanks ....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 8th November 2012, 18:16

Maree can you send details privately please of nursery.
Regards David.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 8th November 2012, 18:25

Yes , no worries !!!
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 8th November 2012, 18:47

Just had a look at Magic Garden roses , they say they have Virus free rootstock ....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 8th November 2012, 19:42

We need to take step back here a bit, is it the rootstock that has the "virus" or the plant that the "budwood" came from scratch
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 8th November 2012, 19:53

No idea Roseman , just reading what they have on their website ....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 8th November 2012, 19:59

you will probably find that its from the budwood....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

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