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Rose Mosaic Virus

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Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 4th November 2012, 14:34

This thread is dedicated to the topic, please keep it that way.
IMO as there are many postings on here and other forums about this subject, I think we should keep naming names away from it(nurseries and such). If you have links to it by all means place them here.
IMO and it is my own there are no "definite" outstanding results to prove that this virus is/are in roses. If you check all published data on it, from memory it it is more related to "Prunus" than roses.
What I will do is get one of our members to post all he knows about it here. Some of the information is very lengthy.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 4th November 2012, 16:33

I few pictures of RMV.....

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 4th November 2012, 17:27

John(neptune) are these from your roses or from the net. The bottom one tells me it is the net. Not to have any disparage, who came up with this "possible" virus.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 4th November 2012, 17:54

The first one I have had and the other are from the web......all I know is RMV is either by itself or together with either Prunus Necrotic Ringspot Virus or Apple Mosaic Virus.......who came up with it or what country founded this , I have no idea, but I will look
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 4th November 2012, 18:00

Well done John. That is where people should do the research from. PNRV and AMV,
At present John, have you "contacted" the person(nursery) you purchased the rose from. Don't forget no names.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 4th November 2012, 18:04

I found it a few years ago when I purchased my first ten roses and someone told me what it was.....so I spaded it straight away before it mechanically infected the other plants
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 4th November 2012, 18:17

If you are into heavy reading about AMV, you can try this....

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by AutumnDamask on 4th November 2012, 19:50

Here are some pics (all from the same bush).

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 4th November 2012, 20:30

Thats what my four standard David Austins had , i got rid of them , i thought i saw a leaf like that on Aoteroa , i'll have to check in the morning ....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 4th November 2012, 20:33

I'm so pleased everyone is now becoming aware by reading all this information.

I wrote where a USA a fertiliser business can't solve the nursery rose problems with fertilisers because 50% of all roses in America are virused.

I have told you that unlike myself some others don't have a program in place to reduce or eradicate it as best we can.

I have built a box with heater and thermostat to hold an infected plant at 35degrees C for a period of 30 days. Then chip bud the plant and these if grafted on virus free understocks will not have the virus as documented in a scientific paper. Unfortunatly the virus has shown up again in these supposed virus free plants after 4 years.

After aquiring what appeared to be a non infected Peace bush rose thinking it must be the last one left in the world, then finding it RMV infected after kept for 4 years during drought and hose watering restrictions I have to go back to finding a healthy climbing Peace which is less likely to be infected, then graft from the non climbing budwood. It is claimed there isn't a Peace rose in the world that is not infected. This has happened since the 1940's when the Meillands bred it.
In the 50's and 60's printed rose growing advice mentioned RMV was not a problem. How can this be when in 1980 untill now all the Peace Roses are infected?
For this reason I don't sell Peace Roses but you will probably see it mentioned as available in every nursery list.

Another problem is not all nursery hands and owners know a great deal about it and as mentioned look back through the arcives and find where people in the trade didn't know what RMV was.

Last but not least even a nursery with prevention programs in place can't identify every rose as clean of RMV.
The answer is to have a simple field test to identify those that are infected and those that arn't.
I have read reams of scientific papers looking for this solution which to date is not available.

When sourcing information in scientific papers shown here or others on google there is a test that requires the plants be sent to a Lab where a more in depth test can be made. What we need is a simple field test available to every rose propagator.

This is a scaled down version of what I have been talking about in other area's. A simple field test is the only way we can eradicate it. Looking for signs is one way but 75% of infected plants would get through using this method.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by AutumnDamask on 4th November 2012, 20:34

That last picture of mine is not a "good" RMV example. If I had a bush with only one leaf like that I'd be waiting to see if more showed up as it could easily be a deficiency or some other problem. I left in in though because it shows what the bush is like as a whole.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 4th November 2012, 20:47

Bruce..we had a beautiful Peace rose bush for three years, but got rid of it totally because the blooms would not hold for a few days. so we couldn't use it for shows as they blow too quickly. Did you want me to find you a good one?
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 4th November 2012, 22:01

John I would love one that is virus free and grows with vigour like the originals around 1945 on to 1950 odd.

Autumn Damask. I'm talking all viruses which are many but RMV is the most common Your yellow speckled pix appears to be virused but I don't know the condittions it is growing under so for now just call it a good suspect.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 4th November 2012, 22:06

Ozeboy , as i said , i had four standards DA Mary Rose , which all had that pattern on the leaves , in alarm i searched the net and came up with RMV , which i thought was probably what they had , i did eventually pull them out , because of all the conflicting advice you seem to get on this subject . I never alerted the nursery maybe i should have , didn't have the knowledge back then . The roses themselves were not affected , but the bushes would shed all there leaves ,every year , after 2-3 years i pulled them out , got sick of them , thinking back maybe it was the RMV , making them shed their leaves . Just hope none of my other roses have it ......... Are standards more likely to get RMV Ozeboy ?
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 5th November 2012, 05:43

Maree I don't grow standards for I would go insane looking at all those white Icebergs. Possibly the jump in sales might compensate and keep me smiling. I don't think a rose on a long understock cane as in standards would make the difference, they are either infected or not via the understock or the rose. Because the nutrients and sap have to travel further might bring out the virus which is laying dormant.
I have been experimenting with standards 2 1/2 metres long because I feel if I can make good plants of these then lower ones will be simpler.
These are not showing the virus possibly because i'm very fussy with all plant material used to build them. One method I do to give them a really good start is plant them into the ground where they are to be situated and come back 12 months later and graft them with the roses people select. I'm not real excited about producing them in 12" pots
though when hungry everything is possible

This is one subject Roseman (David) and I don't agree on. Despite being in the industry he didn't accept 3 or 4 years ago that the virus actually existed. Not Davids fault, the industry failed to highlight the problem in communications distributed amoung field workers. Possibly some things are given the Mushroom treatment.

Neptune hasn't been in roses very long but is extremely sharp learning more in 5 years than others in 10 years. His post mentions the first 12 roses purchased had some virused which had to be discarded. Everything has to be first class when showing roses.

Davids post above suggests reading all the scientific papers out there but I have come up with a wooley brain still looking for that simple field test to identify the infected ones. Next time you go to your GP doctor they will mention it could be this or that but order a blood test for positive identification. I have been knocking my head against a brick wall asking for the simple field test. Can't a country throw some money in for research.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 5th November 2012, 05:45

No Maree

This is one subject Roseman (David) and I don't agree on. Despite being in the industry he didn't accept 3 or 4 years ago that the virus actually existed. Not Davids fault, the industry failed to highlight the problem in communications distributed among field workers. Possibly some things are given the Mushroom treatment.

The paragraph above is from Bruce's(Ozeboy) post. Yes we do not agree on it, that is correct. The industry did not neglect to inform me, It is of my opinion that some of the virus is rampant in some varieties of roses. From my reading of the virus which comes out of the US mainly, one of the major culprits is our good Dr Huey.
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 5th November 2012, 06:46

I symphathize with all of you , seems breeding roses is very tricky , simple answer is it seems , if you have a infected rose , and you know what you are looking for , which most of the public wouldn't , pull it out . What a shame , especially if its a standard . I grow standards and bush roses , standards because of the lack of room and i can grow things around them , had my time again though , probably not , expensive and more trouble than they are worth . Ozeboy , shock , horror , i would never grow one of those ghastly Iceberg things , LOL , horrible things , i think they are pretty triffids one day coming to get us lol .....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Henry Kuska on 5th November 2012, 06:53

I am impressed by the thesis in this link for a historical introduction.
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My links on what I feel is known now are at:
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 5th November 2012, 06:55

David, you refused to agree roses were infected with RMV at that time.
Some roses are less likely to show the signs until stressed, It doesn't change the fact they are either carrying the infection or not.

Dr. Huey is just another vigorous rose that roots well and is used for understocks. Compatability is my concern with it. They are not grown from seed as far as I know to make mother plants virus free like we do with Multiflora. It wouldn't take long for the Doctor to become infected right across the good old USA.
I'm aware you are a member of the American Rose Breeders, (I've seen your posts) where some excellent papers are available on just about every aspect of roses so just point me in the direction of a simple field test to identify roses infected so I can get out there and make a real difference.
I'm waiting with my computer at the ready as I need this so bad.

I don't want this to develope into a crap slinging match for I respect you for your industry knowledge and most of all having so capably taken over the Forum from Simon. Anyone that can make a real difference controlling virus, please stand up, we have been waiting for you for years.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 5th November 2012, 07:14

Thanks Henry for your input, I'm pleased you have stood up, will read your links with great care.

On another subject you documented,"Glysophate remaining active in the soil", have recently experienced this problem myself. Do you have anything available on "Fusilade" a narrow leaf herbicide used here around roses.
Users comment it's great untill the broad leaf weeds take over due to lack of competition from the narrow leaf weeds.
I'm becoming very disenchanted with using herbicides of any description.

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Jac2 on 5th November 2012, 11:01

Boy, am I glad about getting these links gratis; would have taken me ages to collate all this info AND a few more, not just RMV, yippee; I’ve really hit the jackpot on this thread. Something I can sink my teeth into; no more pretty, frilly pix form my end for a while ….

So, Bruce, you’ve made me read up on RMV and go into my garden and take a closer look at my roses’ leaves, and I had to laugh: despite all my protests that my roses are vigorous and floriferous, which I maintain they are, I identified three buses, which may display the symptoms. Coincidentally and ONLY coincidentally they are Pat Austin, Gertrude Jekyll and my Mystery Austin; and they, too, came from the same place as did all my other mislabeled roses as well as the only one that died, a situation I no longer view as coincidental.

Pat - maybe ...
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GJ - definitely
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This one takes the cake: mislabeled AND infected …
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What do I do now, Bruce, where is this appropriate authority you identified that I can contact to file my formal complaint? All the above roses were purchased at the same place on the same day (plus my mislabeled Papa, which shows no symptoms); I have the receipt and all labels, as well as plenty of photographic evidence of their progress from day one, and am now motivated to follow up on this situation.
Looks like asking for replacement roses would be futile and I’d rather skip that step…
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by Ozeboy on 5th November 2012, 12:16

Jac2,I'm sorry to have ruined the fantasy but I don't like to see people spending a fortune on special fertilisers to rectify a virused rose.

I bet you have gone to great lengths and and expense to correct the uncorrectable.

I have kept a low profile on this matter for quite a few years but when I work like hell to have a clean nursery not making profit perhaps I should join the group. I might get the house peppered with bullets one night. Oh! I forgot that's only in the drug business.

Have I given you a next step? Can't remember, though I would contact the nursery with all the proof and request replacements. If reputable they should replace them. They rely on no one knowing it exists . Just keep your cool when reporting it and if they won't do anything just quitely mention they will be hearing from your Solicitor. After 5 steps toward their gate or door turn around and mention how easy it would be to settle the problem now. Be very cool it's the ravers I find easiest to handle after managing stores for some of the biggies. I didn't like those cool deliberate customers for I know they really mean business.
Best of Luck
should do something

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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by neptune on 5th November 2012, 13:55

Digger Chainsaw guy
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 5th November 2012, 17:12

Jac PM me please with the name of the nursery you purchased these from
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

Post by maree on 5th November 2012, 18:07

I just checked my Aoteroa , yes it has it , i think that sickly Papa that i just dug out must have infected it and Papa came from the same nursery as the DA's that all had it .. What to do now , i have no idea, i think i should probably pull all that standard rose bed out and replace with bush roses ,AAAAHHHHHHHH , i don't know what to do ....... Have no receipts .....
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Re: Rose Mosaic Virus

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