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Total Phosphorus

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Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 24th October 2012, 23:26

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, I was talking to a rep from Scotts, they do Osmocote fertilisers etc... she was saying, from next year the total Phosphorus in all fertilisers will not be allowed to be more than 1% ....
now some common fertiliser like Sudden Impact has 2% and
Strick Back has around3.4%..... so what will this mean for the growing of our roses. Is Phosphorus an important make up of fertilisers and will this have any dramatic effects on the growing of roses...

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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 25th October 2012, 00:06

If you have a look at Thrive, it is P=27. For roses the P value is more important than the N value. If they are going to reduce it for the domestic market, all you need to do paul is go to Mirco bros and pick up a good fertilizer there at commercial strength. Just remember, its functions as one of the major players in the process of photosynthesis, nutrient transport, and energy transfer. Phosphorus also effects the plant's structure at a cellular level. A plant with the proper amount of phosphorus available to it will grow more vigorously and mature earlier than plants with inadequate phosphorus. A plant with phosphors deficiency will exhibit stunted growth, lack of fruit or flowers, wilting and leaves may be greener or have a purple cast to them due to the photosynthetic process being affected.


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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 25th October 2012, 00:17

neptune wrote:If you have a look at Thrive, it is P=27. For roses the P value is more important than the N value. If they are going to reduce it for the domestic market, all you need to do paul is go to Mirco bros and pick up a good fertilizer there at commercial strength. Just remember, its functions as one of the major players in the process of photosynthesis, nutrient transport, and energy transfer. Phosphorus also effects the plant's structure at a cellular level. A plant with the proper amount of phosphorus available to it will grow more vigorously and mature earlier than plants with inadequate phosphorus. A plant with phosphors deficiency will exhibit stunted growth, lack of fruit or flowers, wilting and leaves may be greener or have a purple cast to them due to the photosynthetic process being affected.

now that's intersting neptune... some of my roses are displaying the deficiencies you are describing.. especially being totally covered with
purple leaves... and some that are nearly 2 years old that just wont
grow and fill out or even look like getting to any height at all... so
I wonder.... Hmmm



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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 25th October 2012, 00:21

your not looking at the new growth as being P deficient , are you Paul?
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 25th October 2012, 00:52

neptune wrote:your not looking at the new growth as being P deficient , are you Paul?

Umm...I've got some bushes that have the new growth that are now looking like full sized leaves that are still purple. some where the leaves are are green and develop purpleish brownie blotching. Crying or Very sad
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 25th October 2012, 00:59

don't like the sound of the blotching....any chance for photos?
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 25th October 2012, 01:30

neptune wrote:don't like the sound of the blotching....any chance for photos?

No worries neptune... i'll take a couple tomorrow and post them.. ta for that
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 25th October 2012, 05:42

Paul, did you ask the Rep why the reduction in P
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by Balinbear on 25th October 2012, 13:38

Might be to reduce phosphate runooff into the waterways. Its been an issue in urban and heavily farmed areas for sometime now. It is identified as one of the causes af algea blooms etc

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Like the need for chemical spraying it is another things that needs to be bred out of plants. In the future maybe we will need to redce our expectency that we will have large flowers and lots of them in favour of plants that grow and flower (maybe not as good but still flower) without any chemical assistance.
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 25th October 2012, 23:11

roseman wrote:Paul, did you ask the Rep why the reduction in P

No I didn't roseman...she said it was a new government regulation Stunned
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 25th October 2012, 23:34

neptune wrote:don't like the sound of the blotching....any chance for photos?

Hi neptune....here's a few photos of my problem children lol!

These 2 photos are of my climber... after winter prune she budded up well then lost most of its new leaves.. it has come back again fairly well except for the blotching and the some die back on the edge of leaves...
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This next one is of my magic sunset... leaves came on well then they died back now it is covered in fairly mature leaves that are all purple
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This one is my mr lincoln it came on well then the leaves died back now its new leaves are blotchy
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The rest of the photos speak for themselves
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What do we think?????
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 26th October 2012, 00:08

the black blotches in the top photos on the green leaves...I have the same on two bushes in pots but have never seen it in the garden....so it must be something to do with pots......some of the others look like potassium or magnesium deficiency as they have similar characteristics......what are your ph readings?......and how long have these roses being in pots?....
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 26th October 2012, 00:57

neptune wrote:the black blotches in the top photos on the green leaves...I have the same on two bushes in pots but have never seen it in the garden....so it must be something to do with pots......some of the others look like potassium or magnesium deficiency as they have similar characteristics......what are your ph readings?......and how long have these roses being in pots?....

Thanks neptune.... the blotchy ones are in pots....about 2 years
the climber is in a pot about 2 years
the others were in the ground about 2 years before the were re transplanted at the end of winter.... they have had potash..so maybe some
epsom salts Hmmmm I'll do some ph readings tomorrow the potting mix should be neutral
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 26th October 2012, 01:22

thanks... let me know please....also they will do well in the pots for about two years and then will need transplanting. Roses in containers tend to deplete the soil of its nutrients more rapidly than if they were in the ground. Often they will also outgrow their containers and need a larger home.
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by Jac2 on 26th October 2012, 12:53

[quote="Balinbear"]Might be to reduce phosphate runooff into the waterways. Its been an issue in urban and heavily farmed areas for sometime now. It is identified as one of the causes af algea blooms etc

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Wow, what an eye-opener, Gary; the more I read, the more I become convinced that I donít need any manufactured slow release fertilizers or other supplements at all, and that just banging on a constant supply of leaf mulch and lawn clippings as well as keeping the soil moist will do the trick. That will create a system that can sustain itself, especially once all those beautiful worms move in, and they sure love the leaf mulch best.
Iíd encourage anybody to open the Yellow Pages and call a couple of local maintenance services; thereíre people in our community who must go out of their way and pay to dump that stuff, and would be only too happy to make a delivery to you instead.
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by Balinbear on 26th October 2012, 22:38

Yes and all we need is for it to rain.
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 26th October 2012, 23:28

paulh wrote:
neptune wrote:the black blotches in the top photos on the green leaves...I have the same on two bushes in pots but have never seen it in the garden....so it must be something to do with pots......some of the others look like potassium or magnesium deficiency as they have similar characteristics......what are your ph readings?......and how long have these roses being in pots?....

Thanks neptune.... the blotchy ones are in pots....about 2 years
the climber is in a pot about 2 years
the others were in the ground about 2 years before the were re transplanted at the end of winter.... they have had potash..so maybe some
epsom salts Hmmmm I'll do some ph readings tomorrow the potting mix should be neutral

Hi neptune, i just wanted run past you some ph levels of some pots and the garden bed.
Photos 1-3 ph 6 1/2
Photo 4 ph 5 1/2
Photo 5 ph 5 1/2
Photo 8 ph 5

in my garden bed I did 4 readings...
ph 8
ph 7
ph 7 1/2
ph 8

Also an interesting this...while checking the ph levels in the photos 1-3 which is of my climber I noticed in the potting mix were squllions of real tiny clear coloured "bugs" they look like microscopic
spiders or something similar..

What you make of all this... all advice is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 26th October 2012, 23:53

bugs sound like spider mite...get rid of them quickly...those 4 ph readings are way toooooooooo high....need to get them down between 5.5-6.5. Roses love slightly acidic soil. Melville rose nursery likes his down to about 4.5......not sure on that one,...but then again you can't dispute the quality of his roses...
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 27th October 2012, 00:21

neptune wrote:bugs sound like spider mite...get rid of them quickly...those 4 ph readings are way toooooooooo high....need to get them down between 5.5-6.5. Roses love slightly acidic soil. Melville rose nursery likes his down to about 4.5......not sure on that one,...but then again you can't dispute the quality of his roses...

Thanks neptune...the 4 readings you mention that would be the garden bed..so how do I remedy that... are the pots ok or should they be altered..

No with the spider mites actually in the potting mix, how would I treat that?
I guess I can spray the leaves....having said that..I got so frustrated yesterday with the persistent mildew, even though I triforine every 7-10 days, I hit them with a half strength mixture of lime sulphur, the directions says it would treat spider mites as well... not sure about that..

Hmmm
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 27th October 2012, 00:35

the pots ph are good ...get yourself a pesticide that deals with spider mites and make sure you spray top and bottom of leaves as well as the canes and joints in canes where thet nest.......triforine and limesulphur are fungicides, so they won't have much effect on pests......wash your mildew off early in the morning with water
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 27th October 2012, 08:12

Sulphur, is good for mites, if you have good chemist/pharmisist he/she will sell you some cheap, normally very high grade, spray in the cool of morn/after. In the vineyard we use a commercial product called "Thiovit", google it and read it's uses


Last edited by roseman on 27th October 2012, 13:52; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by AutumnDamask on 27th October 2012, 11:50

neptune wrote:....need to get them down between 5.5-6.5. Roses love slightly acidic soil. Melville rose nursery likes his down to about 4.5......not sure on that one,...but then again you can't dispute the quality of his roses...

Am so glad to hear that.... since my soil pH is about 4.5-5. Cool
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by paulh on 27th October 2012, 14:08

[quote="roseman"]Sulphur, is good for mites, if you have good chemist/pharmisist he/she will sell you some cheap, normally very high grade, spray in the cool of morn/after. In the vineyard we use a commercial product called "Thiovit", google it and read it's uses[/
quote]

Ta for that info
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by neptune on 27th October 2012, 14:18

Paul if you can't get the sulphur...you should be able to get Rogor
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Re: Total Phosphorus

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 27th October 2012, 18:00

Paul, can youy check with the chemist what the grms/Lt is, hopefuly something like 800.
At present I can't get all the info for anyone, it is the /this computer playing up. It ain't me
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Re: Total Phosphorus

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