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Swane's

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Swane's

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 16th June 2012, 12:52

Ok Finbarr, this topic is for you, others will join in no doubt. Can you give me/us some info about them if you can.
Who bought them.
Is Geoff Swane still around
What rootstocks do you use
Which breeders and or agents do you have on your books
Who does your budding now
That are some questions I have, others might have more or none.

Regards David.
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Re: Swane's

Post by finbarr on 18th June 2012, 08:08

i missed this sorry. the Swane's nursery business is owned by a family business that has been involved in nurseries since 1984. Geoff still lives in Narromine but is not involved in the nursery business. we use Dr Huey almost exclusively but sometimes our short cycle production can be Manetti. we represent Week's USA, the remainder of Zary's varieties from Jackson and Perkins USA, Gareth Fryer UK, Pierre Orard France, Sam McGredy NZ, Weatherly Aust, Grant Aust. Budding is contracted out to professional budders who follow the rose crops of Europe and Australia. there are many changes happening to the nursery production industry. rose production needs to change to remain viable. the breeding is ongoing but the demand for winter field roses is slipping. don't be surprised if there are significant changes over the next few years.

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Re: Swane's

Post by betsyw on 18th June 2012, 10:52

Would one of those changes be moving to own-root, Finbarr? If so, I really hope that at least some cultivars are deemed economically worthy of grafting. I have had very little joy from most own-root HTs.
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Re: Swane's

Post by betsyw on 18th June 2012, 19:14

Also, a question that you may not wish to answer because of contractual arrangements you don't wish to share. Fair enough, but I'll ask anyway..

Your representation of Delbard seems to have gone from gung-ho exclusive to a mere laundry list of the stock you carry. No rose porn in that section any more Very Happy . I watch your site closely, and Swane's loss of enthusiasm has put me off Delbard cultivars.

On the other hand, your 'refined' list of roses seems all over the shop, too. I once used Swane's rose list as a really good guide to great roses for Oz conditions. I have lost confidence in the past five years. Not in the quality of your plants, always excellent, but in the quality of the cultivars themselves.

There is breathless prose for PJPII (winner, no contest ) and equally gushy text for Ebb Tide (VERY mixed user reviews), and whoever wrote the blurb for my soon-to-be-ordered Ultimate Garden Vixen (Sweet Intoxication, and no meaningful reviews in yet) should be drug-tested (don't ban me, roseman, just kidding but just sayin')

Sooo. It's 2012, and the rose industry is about to go through a rationalisation equivalent to Fairfax. Now, today, what roses would you as CEO (and your Swaner's gurus)really , and I mean really, proclaim as Swane's best and most worthy? (inlcuding the last scrapings of J&P, after the corporate asset stripping).
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Re: Swane's

Post by finbarr on 18th June 2012, 20:16

wow betsy, deep stuff but i welcome the feedback. roses are in stiff competition with well marketed plants and other stuff you can buy. as the market is very noisy getting attention is tougher every day. we know devotees will read between the lines and do their due diligence but attracting new growers is a strong focus for us. variation in performance is always a fear. we hope that the evaluation process is good enough to limit poor performance but we really don't know the value of a variety until after it has been widely distributed and grown. we use our own evaluations, breeders reports, genetic heritage and the Australian Rose Trials all in conjunction to decide to sponsor a variety to market. the market then decides to keep alive or kill a variety. regarding the Delbard's, we produce and sell what sells, and they haven't shown enough demand to invest in in a big way.
as for my picks, well i'll have to think about that one. Geoff often the favourites were most often the ones that looked their best on the day you were asked the question. maybe i'll come back to you after some thought. i think Sweet Intox will be a winner, but that's for you guys to judge. lol

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Re: Swane's

Post by AutumnDamask on 18th June 2012, 20:46

betsyw wrote:... and whoever wrote the blurb for my soon-to-be-ordered Ultimate Garden Vixen (Sweet Intoxication, and no meaningful reviews in yet) should be drug-tested (don't ban me, roseman, just kidding but just sayin')
L.O.L.
I should get that one. Although maybe I won't put her next door to 'Imperial Tipsy Concubine'.....

Spinner
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Re: Swane's

Post by betsyw on 18th June 2012, 22:02

[maybe i'll come back to you after some thought. i think Sweet Intox will be a winner, but that's for you guys to judge. lol [/quote]

Um no, actually not for us to judge, It was for you (Swanes) to judge, and me (aka us guys ) to buy on your recommendation. Are you SURE about this ?

I look forward to your Swanes list of the Best of the New Best
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Re: Swane's

Post by maree on 18th June 2012, 23:17

Finbarr , i know i keep harping on about this , but why can't you breed or resource roses that smell beautiful and are disease resistant . Potential customers are very time poor now and i am sure the love for a beautiful smelling rose hasn't waned , but they are seen as labour intensive plants . I myself don't have the time or money to keep up a spraying program and so have culled about half my roses , i still love them and will still keep growing them , just not so many . Brindabella roses profess to have BS free roses , i haven't tried them yet , but surely you could run a range of BS free roses as well , that are not landscape roses and are vase and perfume worthy . I have always liked your quality of roses and your good mail order service , keep up the good work there . Thanks for your time here ....
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Re: Swane's

Post by AutumnDamask on 19th June 2012, 06:42

maree wrote:.. why can't you breed or resource roses that smell beautiful and are disease resistant . ....

I'm going to put my 2c in here ... I figure growing disease resistant AND fragrant roses is similar to trying to breed worm resistant sheep that still have all the other attributes I want (fleece measurements, body weight, growth etc). We've been trying to breed for that for a long time.
It's all highly complex and a huge proportion of what we see ('phenotypic expression') is a result of environment. "10% breed, 90% feed" is the common saying. Every season is different. Nutrition (macro & micro) of the animal (/plant) is critical: all animals have worms but sick animals become overwhelmed by the worms.
And there is no "one size fits all". Merino sheep developed to do well in the drier country rarely handle the wetter regions (and so on).

Having said that, we do have fragrant, disease resistant roses.... Just that a lot aren't Hybrid Teas... (Note: I know Warren has bred quite a few... just waiting further testing?? Razz )

And - I've kinda used up the 2c now - it's worth remembering that we say "disease resistant". Which is not the same as disease immune.

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Re: Swane's

Post by finbarr on 19th June 2012, 07:59

i'll do my best to please, betsyw. but i have been wrong in the past and may well be wrong again.
autumndamask is quite correct, and we may never see the perfect performing rose. the holy grail is still some way off. finding the perfect rose plant characteristics is akin to the mapping of the genome. i will be interested to findout over the next few years how PJPII travels around the country, as it is as close to the best i've seen so far.
as for Brindabella, he makes his own claims, ultimately the consumer will judge.

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Re: Swane's

Post by maree on 19th June 2012, 10:29

Thanks AutumnDamask / Finbarr , for your comments , i'm no rosarian or grower , just a suburban mum , who loves gardening but hates black spot . I understand there are other more disease resistant roses than hybrid teas, but like Betsyw , i love the fragrance and long stems of hybrid teas, my mum says you just have to live with black spot and ignore it , maybe she's right . Finbarr i live in Melbourne and i'm looking at PJP11 at the moment, its one i ordered through Swanes , i think its two years old , i got it the first year of its release . It still has some flower buds , it does get black spot , no mildew though , but it doesn't exfoliate all its leaves at the first sign of BS like some hybrid teas do .I really like it , citrus fragrance yes , but thats okay , i'm fine with citrus , myrthh, floral , as long as its a fragrance . Thumbs up for PJP11 !!!
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Re: Swane's

Post by maree on 20th June 2012, 09:47

Mmmnnn maybe that should be defoliate , not exfoliate , anyways shed all its leaves and then stand there like a naked person for the rest of the season .... Not pretty ....
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Re: Swane's

Post by jordan71 on 21st June 2012, 18:18

maree wrote:Thanks AutumnDamask / Finbarr , for your comments , i'm no rosarian or grower , just a suburban mum , who loves gardening but hates black spot . I understand there are other more disease resistant roses than hybrid teas, but like Betsyw , i love the fragrance and long stems of hybrid teas, my mum says you just have to live with black spot and ignore it , maybe she's right . Finbarr i live in Melbourne and i'm looking at PJP11 at the moment, its one i ordered through Swanes , i think its two years old , i got it the first year of its release . It still has some flower buds , it does get black spot , no mildew though , but it doesn't exfoliate all its leaves at the first sign of BS like some hybrid teas do .I really like it , citrus fragrance yes , but thats okay , i'm fine with citrus , myrthh, floral , as long as its a fragrance . Thumbs up for PJP11 !!!

mine still far too small maree.. looking forward when it blooms ..apparantley it has beautiful scent
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Re: Swane's

Post by maree on 22nd June 2012, 10:07

Hope you love it too Jordan , it is a fresh , citrus , scent , i think it is a good reliable rose when there are soo many duds out there .
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Re: Swane's

Post by betsyw on 22nd June 2012, 10:25

I am trying to find a pic sent to me by my friend of her new-for-2011 PJPII. His Holiness is just astonishingly well-leafed, well-proportioned ,vigorous and flowering beautifully. No spray , and in pot, too. Nicest looking rose bush I've seen in a long time. Shout-out here to Swane's - great specimen of a really top rose, Finbarr.

I really hope this rose isn't mercilessly stripped of its vigor by its own popularity - too many spindly grafts pouring out of too many suppliers. I think now is a good time to get your Swane's PJPII. $10, jeez - I'd get two at least. (rotten luck that I'm not a citrusy rose person, phooey)
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Re: Swane's

Post by Ozeboy on 22nd June 2012, 11:10

As mentioned the perfect rose hasn't been bred yet. What's wrong with PJP11? Very little except the Hibiscus Beetles spend most of their time boring holes in the blooms. They just love white roses.
Yes one can spray with recomended pestercides like Carbaryl (Spelling)
to kill the little blighters, thoufh this will kill all the earthworms and swallows seeking mud under the roses to make their nests.

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Re: Swane's

Post by maree on 23rd June 2012, 02:10

Don't have hibiscus beetles here Ozeboy , do have earwigs in the summer that hide in the rose petals , anyone got any ideas on how to get rid of them , without using sprays, i'm soo scared of them , heard horrific stories of them crawling into peoples ears of a nightime , Uggghh !!!
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Re: Swane's

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 23rd June 2012, 07:34

As this is the "offical site" of Swanes. I thought I would bring this into here an throw it around.
I have been reading about it on another forum in the USA. It has been getting good reports so far.
At present America has 'Twilight Zone', released by Weeks over there, as Swanes are the Oz agent here for them. I wonder how long before it might get to our gardens(calling for a response from Finbarr). Is it in your trial beds yet Finbarr.

P.S. thanks Maree and Betsy for the PMs
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Re: Swane's

Post by betsyw on 23rd June 2012, 08:10

Just a quick answer before Finbarr arrives with more detailed information.

The answer in short is yes, Swane's IS trialing TZ even as we speak (this directly from Finbarr when I asked him personally about TZ amonth ago.) Am I happy or what bounce
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Re: Swane's

Post by Ozeboy on 23rd June 2012, 10:54

As this is a Swanes topic some information from an outsider with no inside or commercial interest in their roses might help one of our members. These are my findings based on being a regular visitor to their Dural gardens in Spring Summer and Autumn.

These are their healthiest in my opinion which can be bought knowing they should grow well in your garden without being propped up with regular spraying.

Big Purple, Bonica, Diamond Jubilee, Firefighter, Fresia, Gemini, Good Samaritan, Hot Cocoa, Karen Blixen, Marilin Monroe, Mary MacKillop, Midas Touch, Moonstone, My Hero, Oklahoma,
Opening Night, Pope John Paul 11, Princess de Monaco, Queen Elizabeth, Remember Me, St Patrick, Sweet Cailin, The Childrens Rose, Tournament of Roses, Ultimate Pink, Voodoo, Warm Wishes.

As mentioned but worth repeating the above is based on observations and personal rose experience.

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Re: Swane's

Post by finbarr on 24th June 2012, 10:04

maybe we should close the "official site" with this.
Twilight Zone is in evaluation, release tba once it proves its worth. best group amongst our recent varieties would be, as far as i am concerned : PJPII, Good Samaritan, Monstone, FIREfighter, My Hero, Cabana, Heart of Gold, Bonnie Babes and Daybreaker. i also have a soft spot for Sweet Caitlin, Topsy Turvy, Warm Wishes, Sundance and Marilyn Monroe. good luck with the search for the perfect one

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Re: Swane's

Post by sallybcs on 1st July 2012, 08:27

Thanks Finbarr.

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