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Dumb question

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Dumb question

Post by AutumnDamask on 1st December 2011, 21:42

Albas. How would you describe the scent?
Descriptions on roses of "strong Alba scent" really don't help me as I don't have any Albas - presuming that my "Konegin von Danemark" (version 3) is actually 'Constance Spry'. LOL I found the smell of that was identical to 'Constance' (as well as leaves and thorns and bloom... Blah Blah Blah )

Am I right in saying that 'Constance Spry' has a myrrh fragrance?

I can tell damask scent (my fav) and tea scent and "old-fashioned rose scent".

Dunno
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Re: Dumb question

Post by Admin on 1st December 2011, 22:34

Two rosey things I am not good at are describing colour and describing scent. I know what I like but I guess my sniffer is not refined enough to differentiate much between them. I have 'Madame Plantier' here that is sometimes described as an Alba and sometimes described as a Noisette.. it has a 'nice' perfume lol

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Re: Dumb question

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 2nd December 2011, 05:37

Wendy, Wendy, what are we going to do with you, you are being hood winked Brainwash . Roses smell like Roses .
I use this as one that is in the wine industry. Somehow the wine makers get stuff other than wine in bottle, eg, chocolate, blackberry, citrus, and other "things" which do not belong to the grape family roflmao
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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 2nd December 2011, 08:50

I can tell myrrh, it's the scent that makes me pull away in horror. Which is why Jude the Obscure is my one Austin.
Mme Plantier was called a hybrid noisette from the start, but I saw on helpmefind that recent research into scent components says it's all alba. It's a survivor, suckers a bit but not too invasively, and I think it's as pretty as Mme Hardy which gets much more press.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Admin on 2nd December 2011, 17:53

My favourite rose scent is a citrus-like perfume... roses like multiflora have a fruity smell (old over-ripe fruit). That's as far as it goes for me I'm afraid.

'Mme Plantier' is a wonderful rose. Mine is growing own root and is slow to get going but is now starting to form a decenet bush. It is 4 years old now and about 3ft high and wide. It's flowers are a bit smaller than 'Mme Hardy' but every bit as nice.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by OzRose on 2nd December 2011, 19:02

I wouldn't know myrrh if I fell over it. Which roses should I sniff to find it ?
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Re: Dumb question

Post by newforold on 2nd December 2011, 19:14

Hmmm ... the only words I've ever used for the scent of 'Chloris' is 'sweet'. Not a heavy cloying sweet, a light sweet. Not very technical, I know!
BTW, does anyone grow albas in a hot dry climate and can you tell me anything about the flower display in the heat?
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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 2nd December 2011, 23:13

A good few Austins are described as myrrh-scented (which is cunning marketing). One I find particularly objectionable is 'Charles Rennie Mackintosh', which is a pity because I wanted a cupped rose in that colour.
Some Austin descendants have it too (eg George Thomson's 'Onkaparinga'.)


Last edited by Margaret on 2nd December 2011, 23:17; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong rose name)

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 3rd December 2011, 09:41

Albas have been described in my books as sweet, musky. But I completely ignore this characteristic as it is so subjective. Different noses smell different perfumes – and at different times of the day. Too confusing to me. If I get a whiff of perfume, I just accept the gift and don’t try and analyse it. I prefer to look for the light green or bluish leaves of an Alba that are unmistakeable.

‘Constance Spry’ definitely smells of myrrh. David Austin says this fragrance probably comes from one of its parents – ‘Belle Isis’, which itself may have come from the myrrh–scented Ayreshire Splendens’.

Ozrose – Myrrh smells exactly like aniseed. Other Austin roses that I know have this scent are ‘Chaucer’ and ‘Cressida’. I find the scent of myrrh delightful, but as it was once used to wash corpses, there may be a slight memory of this fact sneaking in to the noses of some sniffers.

I grow six Albas, five of them on their own roots. I think they are all spring only when the weather is [normally] cool. They will survive for decades with next to no water.
‘Belle Amour’ – not sure about this one. It looks to have too much apricot in it to be a true alba. But it does well here.
‘Chloris’ – Am positive this is misnamed. This has smooth red canes in winter.
‘Great Maiden’s Blush’ – one of my bushes died, but it is re-shooting. So delicate and beautiful.
‘Konigin von Danemark’ – On multiflora rootstock and so far it has not done well.
‘Maxima’ – Outstanding.
‘Pompon Blanc Parfait’ – a not typical Alba. Small flowers, tall bush.
Oh – and ‘Mme. Plantier’.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by AutumnDamask on 3rd December 2011, 10:54

Thank you, Patricia. I was pretty sure that my 'Konigin von Danemark' (version 3) was NOT as labelled and the fact it smelled like MYRRH (ie. identical to 'Constance Spry') made me really suss about it. But having a description of "Alba scent" to describe what it should smell like was NO HELP. LOL

And just as an aside, 'Lilac Rose' (another Austin) also has a myrrh scent. I'm really not fond of that scent and Lilac Rose will be shovel pruned in any case (RMV) after the next flush of blooms.
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Re: Dumb question

Post by newforold on 3rd December 2011, 18:41

Thanks for the alba information, Patricia. I was planning a new bed of Rosa Alba 'Semi-plena', which sounds just lovely, but I afraid the spring-only display would be extremely fleeting in a hot spring. I have a 'Chloris' but it had a very brief flower this year, (two spring days with temp 36+ ) even though it is in partial shade. The new bed would cop the afternoon sun belting in from the west, so I am wondering about the suitability of albas for such a position.
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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 3rd December 2011, 19:50

I would choose something else.

One of my finest roses in heat is (probably] 'Mrs. Harold Brocklebank'. We've been calling it 'Kootenay'. It's picture is on p239 of Botanica's Roses and captioned there 'Feu Pernet-Ducher'. (Are you following this tangled web?) That wonderful photo was taken in David Ruston's garden and someone had moved a label. 'Feu Pernet-Ducher' was actually the rose next door to the photographed one. The photographed rose David knew as 'Kootenay', but he now thinks his plant was misnamed when he got it (yes - him too.) I think it may well be 'Mrs. Harold Brocklebank', 1907. The only way to buy this rose is to insist that it is the same rose as in that picture.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 3rd December 2011, 22:12

It's not in my 'Pocket Botanica's Roses'.
'Mrs Harold Brocklebank' isn't in commerce anywhere in the world under its own name, as far as I can determine. The plant at Renmark is too young yet, but I can send budwood of David's "Not Kootenay" to Ozeboy.
Another tangle in the web: John N thinks "Henry Vaughn" ex Rookwood is the same as "Not Kootenay".
Easier-to-find creamy repeat-flowerers among the really good oldies would be 'Gruss an Aachen' and 'White Ensign'.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by newforold on 4th December 2011, 18:26

Thanks again. I want a really big creamy shrub rose - that's why I was looking at the albas. I will have alook at 'White Ensign'. I wasn't thinking of Teas, because I already have quite a few, but they do so well here I might as well keep going! Safrano and Peace 1902 are also possiblities. Also I could try shrubby climbers or ramblers and just let them go - I'm not really pushed for space. I have noisettes growing on the unshaded western side of the garden and they do well. Of course, I could really break out and plant a shrub there instead!
Maree

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 4th December 2011, 21:37

Aha. A big creamy one, with good scent, is a found Tea-noisette "Yallum Park Cream" - simliar to Lamarque but definitely cream rather than white. Makes a large arching shrub if grown free-standing. Not in commerce unless I've already sent it to Ozeboy, but if not I will send budwood. It strikes OK from cuttings too. You can look it up on www.helpmefind.com. Not widely-known but it will feature in the next Heritage Roses journal, and in next year's HR Conference.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by newforold on 5th December 2011, 18:50

Yes! Yes! It sounds wonderful. I would love to get hold of it. I am heading to the conference and am so excited about it already. I didn't know anything about the Yallum Park garden, I only knew about the mansion. The journal should be out any day now too, so I have lots to look forward to.
Maree

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 5th December 2011, 21:06

Mailout for the journal is this Friday, but after that it depends on Aus Post. Took 10 working days to get it to Perth last time (a week more than to India).

If you'd like to try cuttings of the "Yallum Park Cream", send me your postal address in a pm.
Margaret

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 5th December 2011, 21:33

Do you have a picture of that rose Margaret? I can only seem to find one on google Sad

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 5th December 2011, 21:53

Aargh, I've been too lazy to work out how to post pics on Rosetalk. There are some pics of "Yallum Park Cream" on www.helpmefind.com - under Plants in the left-hand column, click on Search / Lookup, type in the name, and it should come up. Then click on its Photo button. If that doesn't work, let me know.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 5th December 2011, 22:02

I tried looking there and it came up with only the leaves? Was a bit weird

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 5th December 2011, 22:03

Ok I just tried it again and it worked, weird. The first time it came up with a whole lot of branches in the photo lined up on a table.
It's pretty!!

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 5th December 2011, 23:31

hmf rotates the pics of a rose one at a time through the description page of that rose - you need to click on Photos to get to the rest, as you found.

The leaves were actually on a scanner, with its cover open, and white paper towels over them (white cloth is better). Can't remember if I put a ruler on as well, as a size marker. This can be a useful way of showing detail or comparing 2 roses, and sometimes you show difficult colours better that way than with a digital camera.

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Re: Dumb question

Post by Guest on 5th December 2011, 23:40

Ahh ok Smile It's a very pretty rose. Not seen many like it!

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