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Another pink delight

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Admin on 11th November 2011, 22:05

Gary, as with every rose on the planet... it's a matter of location, location, location. It is not possible to measure black spot resistance because what is resistant in one area may be a total failure in another. That CdL spots down here, along with every Tea I've got bar none, is more a reflection of me trying to grow them where they are not happy than their ability to grow cleanly where they are.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Ozrosarian on 11th November 2011, 22:13

Simon wrote:I can almost guranatee that ANY rose that has DA in it, will spot like a dalmation down here in my garden because whilst they love the more temperate climate, they HATE the humidity and the long periods of wetness we get...

I'd add that perhaps more than 50% of the DAs already available in Australia — which is just a fraction of what DA releases in UK — are not ready for this climate.

But nurseries still import them. That is our crazy human idiosyncrasy at work: roses simply follow the call of nature and respond best when the circumstances for them are best. And then they develop more there, they get stronger, establish themselves and evolve even further.

However, we want to break that rule with every single thought inbred into us by our culture; instead of us moving to live in areas where our favourite plants thrive best, we want them to thrive best in areas where *we* want to live for whatever reason. And if they don't, we dismiss them.

We torture ourselves and poor plants to perform against any common sense and then we blame them.

I think people should rethink what they really expect from plants, and their own lives too, because going against nature is the best way to disappoint ourselves with everything and find satisfaction nowhere. It also kills our curiosity and willingness to learn new things: instead of finding what's best thriving in areas where we live, and enriching our knowledge, we bring with ourselves a few bits of previous knowledge and desires and stick with it like it's holy relic — and never learning anything new.
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Admin on 11th November 2011, 22:17

Thumbsup


Last edited by Simon on 11th November 2011, 23:42; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Balinbear on 11th November 2011, 23:33

Simon

Yes that is more or less what I meant to say.

We get BS here on the couple of Bourbons we have some of the Alister Clark HTs and climbers but the teas, noisettes and chinas are pretty clean.

Some of the Hybrid Musks get it others don't.

As you said it is selective and depends on your location.
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th November 2011, 08:05

Ok, we have got off the track a bit here, so, for my 2 bobs worth. The trialing of roses should be changed to a scale, lets say, 1 to 5. 1 does not get it, say Mudgee, 5 gets it Dural(Sydney). There is a pocket that runs from North Sydney to just short of the central coast that gets fungal deseases. If you draw line horizontally most plants grow along that line(concidering altitude), if you go vertically, this is when chinks start to develop in the armour of plants. If we did a horizontal line through Kindred(Tas) and did the same through the British Ilses it would be interesting to see plant growth 'similarities' or 'differences'.
S.A. is a good spot for trials, I think not. Vic and SA 'were' very "English" and 'European' orrintated. Great for those sort of rose. Alistar Clark, did for Australian conditions. Zirvonimir is growing for what he reckons will grow in Australia, not just Victoria. So the plants he has bred should go to Qld, WA or any part of Australia to prove that they will 'grow' in Australia. In America they grow plants to suit the area, not one size fits all.
As for grapes and roses, the main rose grown around vineyards it is the dreaded 'Iceberg' IMO as it is 'very' reliable to get deseases first, followed by some other floribundas.
I just hope that you do release thes 2 roses to the public sometime as "I" think they are great, Well done Zirvonimir, keep them coming. Thats my bit on this Rant , Regards David.
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by RitaG on 12th November 2011, 08:14

Ozrosarian wrote:We torture ourselves and poor plants to perform against any common sense and then we blame them.

Couldn't agree more. However, we, the rose addicts here in Australia are hopelessly captive to overseas bred plants. And whilst we give in to our addictions and desires, we must accept the fact that like us, roses are not perfect (yes, not even DAs) and they, in the variety of climates they are grown in throughout this country, will succumb to blackspot, mildew, aphids and a barrage of other pest and diseases.

It would be unthinkable for most here to have a garden without roses in it. So for me, I turn a blind eye to these slight imperfections for a short time in their cycle - in my climate they recover quickly to reward me with healthy foliage and delightful blooms, which quickly erase any disappointment I may have fleetingly felt a week or so prior. I think your method of foliar spray with a seaweed solution works well in accelerating this recovery.

I am excited that there are some of you here who are investing valuable time to experiment and innovate. From the results I have seen here so far, you are so close to producing more plants suitable to our varied environmental conditions. Rose growing in Australia is in safe hands thanks to you, the patient, clever and generous hybridisers here. We're not worthy
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th November 2011, 08:24

Well said Rita, we and the rose are not perfect. As you have said if 'they' get desease, them and us will get over it IMO. Thumbsup
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Balinbear on 12th November 2011, 11:43

David
I'm a surveyor and generally resaonably spatially aware (though for some reason when we went the SA and Victoria the compass in my head was 180 degrees out thinking north was south etc) BUT you totally lost me with the horizontal and vertical lines.

Gary
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th November 2011, 11:50

This is from the idiot David. We once watched a program where a fella grew plants from around the world along one single latitude. Lets say the Sunshine Coast latitude, whatever it is, and all these plants grew if they werein their own country, does that make sense to a surveyor, because they are good with lines.
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Admin on 12th November 2011, 13:13

I don't go for these kind of generalisations personally... if you followed lattitudinal bearing across teh country, from say Bateman's Bay across to the equivalent point in WA you would go from a coastal beach climate, to a dry bushland climate to a rainforest climate to a montain climate, to a plains climate to a desert climate and back again when you got to WA... too broad and general...

You need to add a third vertical (altitude) axis to this kind of thinking along with distance from the coast and rainfall data etc. Once matched up, however, it does work out.. is why I can grow South African Proteaceae here.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Balinbear on 12th November 2011, 13:53

Ok I get you now; horizontal and vertical on a map. My problem is that in the 3d world that I work in a horizontal line can go in any direction and vertical ones go straight up in the air.
There was a similar belief in the past that places on the same latitude would have the same animals.
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th November 2011, 14:40

As a surveyor, I did not know that you could draw demensions on flat paper, flat paper has no demensions does it. Topographical surveyors might be able work in 3D. your horizontal line would equate to topographical, would it not Gary.
In answer to the animals thing I think the same, if they can live in say Zimbarb, they should be able to live in the same climatic condition in say, Austarlia. roflmao
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Ozrosarian on 13th November 2011, 17:20

One more notion, if it's of interest to anyone: both roses are about 4ft tall now and I can't see now, nor could see during the last several years, a single thorn on either of them.
They appear to be thornless.
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by MSnoek on 25th November 2011, 12:46

I love reading all of your comments Smile
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Bonita18 on 29th January 2012, 22:34

There is a trial garden in Toowoomba. Things were quiet during the drought but roses are being accepted for trail once more.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Ozeboy on 30th January 2012, 09:04

Trial Garden in Toowoomba, that's what I have been waiting for.
We might see some good healthy roses come from these trials.

Every year I add about 10 to 20 mature roses to the property with mixed results. Some are plants described by others as very suitable breeders. Unfortunatly in Sydney a lot don't perform and are discarded.
I budded three 'Sympathe' which looked great, unfortunatly when covered in Blackspot just stopped growing and all have been bare for the last two months.
Hurry up Toowoomba rose trials.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Dave on 2nd February 2012, 06:55

Bruce, my Pink Knockout still has no BS at all. And it's rained every week this summer. Apart from Laevigata, this is the only rose in my garden that seems immune from the disease. The single pink tulip-like flowers aren't bad either. We'll see what autumn brings. Stay tuned.

How's yours going, Simon - and any others growing Knockouts?

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Admin on 2nd February 2012, 07:28

My 'Sympathie' is going to be shovelled this winter... the black spot on it it is terrible. It has only kept about half its hips so far and it is a reluctant flowerer. I will send it a 'Sympathy' card Rolling Eyes

'Knock Out' is still going strong, Dave. 'Double Knock Out' is too. I have a couple of hips forming now where DKO was used as the pollen parent. Both get blackspot down here but not much. Will wait and see.

I also have a 'Baby Love' seedling here ('Test Tube Baby Love') that I've started pollinating. I need to test it further north soon. 'Brindabella Bouquet' has picked up now we are getting hot dry weather. Will do some late crosses with it I think. I'm all but done now... just the odd curiosity cross now.

Dave, if you get a chance, see if you can find two roses called 'Summer Memories' and 'Purple Rain' (both Kordes roses). I'd be interested in seeing how they go further north. Both have been outstanding here so far in terms of disease resistance. 'Summer Memories' has the most beautiful flowers in classic OGR form... can't comment on perfume but a flower like that just MUST have a delicious perfume. Neither form hips so far but both seem to produce viable pollen. There's not much purple about 'Purple Rain' but the bush is the only one of the bought roses here to be 100% clean of all disease (so far *taps head*) which I find interesting given one of its parents, 'Bassino', is quite the black spot magent.

Who runs the Toowoomba trial gardens?

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Ozeboy on 2nd February 2012, 20:30

Hello Carole, sorry I missed your two questions re trialing roses.

1 Wine grape growing is usually carried out in low humidity area's like SA. Closer to you and I are Cessnock, Sandy Hollow, Mudgee and some parts of the Hunter Valley. There are a lot of tankers carrying wines that are blended with one and other.
Roses grown in these area's will most likely do well but when moved to humid area's like the East Coast of Australia will fail badly. Blackspot and Mildew love humidity and great variation in temperature. It was 35C last week and 17C today. Since the greater population resides on the coast it is in rose growers interest to breed and test roses in that climate. If roses do well in Garry's climate then they will suit just about every locality in Australia.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Ozeboy on 2nd February 2012, 20:45

Dave, thanks for the 'Pink Knockout' update. I must get one of these but can't seem to find one local. It's a rare rose that performs like that in our constant rainy summer weather.

I have had computer problems so please excuse my not responding to some posts. Thanks Simon for your lengthy explanation that should answer most questions re trial gardens in more humid area's.

I had a friend travel from mid NSW to Adelaide and mentioned Blackspot just seemed to disappear the closer you get to Adelaide.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Dave on 3rd February 2012, 06:49

I've made a note of those two, Simon. I'll also chase the other red Knockouts that you have.

Bruce I got mine at the Wyee nursery, massively overpriced...but maybe it's worth it, I'm so impressed. As you say, we couldn't have had a worse summer for roses.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Admin on 5th February 2012, 00:34

I have just tried getting 'Summer Memories' to release pollen and didn't get a single grain! Will have to try it out as a seed parent sometime I think.

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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Meryl on 5th February 2012, 11:04

Simon wrote: "I can almost guranatee that ANY rose that has DA in it, will spot like a dalmation down here in my garden because whilst they love the more temperate climate, they HATE the humidity and the long periods of wetness we get..."

I'm a bit late coming in on that comment but I've just read through the thread again....

Have you tried Tess of the D'Urbervilles, Simon? I just went down the back and took this shot, admittedly not a very clear pic.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
That's Scarlet Flower Carpet in front and T of the Ds rearing up behind it. Tess isn't standing out because her current flowers are at the back.

During the past fortnight we have had max temps ranging between the mid-30s down to about 18 and it has rained and rained and rained with hot sun in between. I won't say Tess never has a black-spotty leaf - she has the occasional one - but by and large she is clean. I leave her and the totally clean Scarlet FC entwined (though they clash a bit) in the hope that one of Tess's multitude of fat hips will yield a rose with an Austin-ish flower and scent and the combined vigor of these two plants.




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Re: Another pink delight

Post by AutumnDamask on 5th February 2012, 12:58

Totally agree with Meryl. Smile My Tess doesn't put a foot wrong. Best DA rose I have. love
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Re: Another pink delight

Post by Admin on 5th February 2012, 15:11

I've not grown TotD, however, I have done some deliberate crosses between my own rose, 'Bullseye' (Flower Carpet 'Scarlet' x Flower Carpet 'Scarlet'), and some Austins like 'Abraham Darby', 'Heritage', and 'Graham Thomas'. I can't say that I am expecting much, however. I have also got hips forming on 'Nahema' ('Grand Siècle' × 'Heritage') and 'Bullseye' and also between 'Nahema' and 'Coral Drift' with the view of making a fragrant healthy groundcover or wich. type shrub. 'Nahema' is by better, by far, than every Austin I've ever grown (not that many) and it forms hips much more easily. I think it's a better breeding option than pretty much any Austin at all. TBH, I don't much like the look of TotD. It's a big whippy rose and I baulk a little at what might eventuate if it's put with a wich. groundcover like FCS.

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Re: Another pink delight

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