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Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

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Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by IanM on 10th September 2011, 12:35

Just when you thought it was over, back it comes with a vengeance! Tantrum Hope we don't get a late frost tonight. The last couple of really warm weeks lulled me into a false sense of security and I decided to prune the whole garden. Now everything is sending out new shoots. A bad frost could be a disaster now! We were saved last night because the wind kept blowing. Tonight may be a different story.
One thing the cold has forced me indoors, so I decided to update my rose list.

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IanM

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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by RitaG on 10th September 2011, 15:58

Bit chilly down here too Ian. Temp range today was 6-16 and its 15.3 ATM. Still much prefer than the oppressive heat. Slight chance of frost this Tuesday according to Weatherzone.

Strange, just spent 8 days in NZ and the temps not as cold overnight there at all!
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by IanM on 11th September 2011, 09:22

Well we got the frost last night as expected. Hope it didn't do too much damage. One thing the sun rises earlier now so the mornings warm up quickly. This can be a bad thing though, because frost damage always relates to rate of thaw. The faster the thaw the greater the damage, which is why plants on the northern and eastern sides of the house always suffer more than those on the sheltered sides. The roses all started to shoot a couple weeks ago, but I can't see any damage. They are generally fairly frost-resistant.
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by Carole on 11th September 2011, 20:20

Ian,
We are still getting frosts.
Last year for some reason we had very few leaves on our roses regardless of the type but the flowers were fine. This year all the plants have leafed up wonderfully.
I am going to prune our plants over the next couple of weeks. The reasons being:
The weather will be nicer and I dont like being outside in the cold.
That is the main reason roflmao

However I do find that any of the prunings I want to use for cuttings take better as the sap is flowing.
Hopfully no late frosts to burn new shoots.
I get a better view of what I want to prune back and what I prefer to leave.

Also the weather should be warmer roflmao
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by Balinbear on 11th September 2011, 20:33

This year has definately been a cold winter up our way. Not so much in the lowest minimum temperature but more it has been cold a lot more days.

Some of our teas actually shed thier leaves which is very unusual. All are leafing up again at the moment and starting to flower.
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by neptune on 11th September 2011, 21:56

Apart from the still cold nights here, I have been hit with something I never had before.....the bug leaves tiny webs everywhere......someone told me they were spider mites...do they harm the plants?????????????????????
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by IanM on 11th September 2011, 22:06

Sounds a lot like red spider mite. They prefer really humid conditions with little air movement. I'm not sure what the best treatment would be. Usually if I find a plant covered in the fine web, I cut it back fairly hard, place all the cut off material in a zip lock bag. Then you can either seal it up and put in the deep freeze for a while before binning, or spray inside the bag with some fly spray, seal it up and throw it in the bin. Then give the plant a fairly thorough spray with some sort of garden insecticide. Make sure to go over the pot and the soil too. I'm not sure about the specific treatment for roses. Someone else on the forum may know?
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th September 2011, 06:20

They are spier mites. John, do you 'spray' and what sort of insectides have you got, there are some low toxic one's and some lot more potent, you will have to get onto them as soon as possible as they will damage your leaves and that is not good for exhibiting flowers.
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by neptune on 12th September 2011, 07:32

no insecticides at all, as I have not needed them, so any suggestion would be helpful
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by IanM on 12th September 2011, 10:25

I find these critters are resistant to just about anything I throw at them, mainly because they hide beneath that thin waterproof webbing. There are possibly some low toxic or home remedies, but I'm not aware of any. I generally just cut off all the infected material and dispose of it as I mentioned before. If plants are in pots you should isolate the infected ones, because they can spread rapidly on to other nearby plants. Giving plants more sun and plenty of air movement often helps, as these pests thrive in hot, still, humid conditions.

This web page says to increase the humidity to help get rid of them??? But in my experience I find they thrive best in humid conditions!! I tried increasing the humidity one time and the little beggers multiplied! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here is an "effective, safe remedy" proposed on another web page. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I know my mother would use dishwashing liquid to get rid of them in the past and it did seem to control them. But they inevitably would come back if left untreated.
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th September 2011, 12:32

Question time here John,
How bad is the infestation
Pure soap Lux or similar to make up the solution to spray them, if possible do not use detergents, unless you use boi-degradable/organic.
The "B" shop would have something stronger or your local nursery.
Pictures would also be helpful.
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by neptune on 12th September 2011, 12:40

They are over about five plants....jeez they move fast
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th September 2011, 16:46

John, what about the other questions, what ever you do, it will have to be sprayed and from the bottom as that is where they conregate.
Google "spider mites on roses" see what come up/
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by neptune on 12th September 2011, 17:29

Not sure what other questions you mentioned in last post.....had a can of white oil that said it can deal with spider mite, so I have sprayed them with it....the white oil overspray certainly shows up where they are as it sticks onto the webs that you can't see
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 12th September 2011, 18:38

John, go back 3 posts
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by Ozeboy on 12th September 2011, 19:00

John, try Maldison which is the trade name for Malathion. It has an unplesant odour but works well with Red Mite in poultry sheds.

Another one I use on the chooks is Permethrin direct onto the feathers and spronkle a little on perches and spread with a paint brush.

Both these work well on poultry mites so I am sure they will fix your problem.

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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by neptune on 12th September 2011, 19:27

roseman wrote:They are spier mites. John, do you 'spray' and what sort of insectides have you got, there are some low toxic one's and some lot more potent, you will have to get onto them as soon as possible as they will damage your leaves and that is not good for exhibiting flowers.

I spray fertilizer on the leaves , but Have not done it yet,....but that is coming up real soon. I also don't have insecticides apart from confidor for the occassional aphids, otherwise they just get hit with water
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by neptune on 12th September 2011, 19:30

Ozeboy wrote:John, try Maldison which is the trade name for Malathion. It has an unplesant odour but works well with Red Mite in poultry sheds.

Another one I use on the chooks is Permethrin direct onto the feathers and spronkle a little on perches and spread with a paint brush.

Both these work well on poultry mites so I am sure they will fix your problem.

will even try this...i just like to know where these come from, because I have never come across this before....
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by IanM on 12th September 2011, 21:44

I wouldn't recommend white oil on roses, although you might get away with it at this time of year. Usually white oil only harms roses in hot weather or in higher concentrations. It will however get rid of the mites.

After reading up about this a bit, I think the best organic treatment would be to give your plants a thorough hose down with fairly high pressure, but not so high that it burns the leaves. This will help break up the webbing and the mites will really hate the cold water. Next chill some water in the fridge for a few hours or place ice cubes in water for a while to get it nice and cold. Spray this directly on to the roses. The mites will hate it. Spray around the surrounding soil and trunk with some white oil, but not on the tender upper branches and foliage. Spray those more sensitive parts with a soap solution, e.g. Sunlight soap in cold water. Repeat these treatments every three days, except for the white oil, which should only ever be used on roses as a last resort. You will break the life cycle of the mites and they will eventually "abandon ship" once conditions are not to their liking.

I got red spider mites last year in my greenhouse for the first time ever. What surprised me was it occurred during a really wet, humid part of the summer. They sometimes come with plants bought from nurseries, and I suspect my infestation came from a plant I bought at a garden show on the coast. I have not seen them since. I guess they found out conditions were not right for them here.
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by Ozeboy on 13th September 2011, 07:10

A rose propagator in this district blames Santa Claus for bringing them.
They come when Santa is in the Supermarkets finding out what the children want him to bring them for Christmas.

There's nothing organic that will keep Poultry clean of internal and external pests. I don't like to use these chemicals but the alternative is disasterous.
Would start with Malathion as it will not effect the roses.

No, I don't spray and haven't for 10 years except the very new shoots on budded plants when the bud has first been activated. The worm population here in pots and ground is so good.

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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by IanM on 13th September 2011, 09:51

Agreed Bruce. They are usually very obstinate critters. But I find their occurence has a lot to do with growing conditions. Here in Qld they seem to be more prevalent on the coast and in the tropics. You hardly ever see them inland of the Great Divide. I guess the simple reason is they hate the cold and the more generous air movement.

I can't stand Malathion and vowed many years ago never to use it. Rogor is the same. Both of them really get to me. I guess a less smelly alternative might be some of those "new generation" nicotine-based sprays, e.g. Defender MaxGuard (TM). I use this spray quite a lot on my cacti and other plants that are shut up in a hothouse where the air is very hot and dry. I never see any mites in there. I find this product also works well on scale, providing you blast the scale off first with some high pressure. Then spray the plant thoroughly and the scale seldom come back.
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by Ozeboy on 14th September 2011, 05:15

John, you can fiddle around with oils and other non toxic sprays but spider mites are a real problem in summer months here. I am reluctant to use toxic sprays, you can put up with the problem or spray. Unfortunatly the good bugs are exposed to the sprays.

The good thing is they will go away when the weather cools but you will probably miss all the shows. I don't show roses so I can wait for the problem to go away.

When I operated the stone fruit orchard on this property you can splash with Maldison and hang up Dak Pots but if you want to get fruit to market then spraying with Lebaycid is the only option. In your case if you want to get blooms to rose shows then maldison seems the best bet.

There are a number of farm supply companies around that cater for the farmer and pest controllers that would have Maldison. They usually have a specialist trained person that can advise you in your local condittions.

I approached our local cut flower grower (Roses) 1/2 klm away who has perfect blooms and $14,000 worth of sprays in his shed. He sprays like all the other perfect rose growers for they can't wait for the problem to go away.

Ian and I share the same the same experiences with the two mentioned sprays, not very nice to use. That's the reason I pulled out all the peach, plum and nectrin trees to try and restore my immune system.

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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by neptune on 14th September 2011, 10:42

I sprayed them the other day with the white oil that I had,....now the leaves are all falling off the bush.....they didn't say that on the can that the side effects would be that..... Tantrum
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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by Ozeboy on 14th September 2011, 19:06

You can use white oil when the roses are dormant in winter. Just spray the canes specially the older lower down ones to prevent bark split.
I have a few very old roses here that have lost their bark and the inner wood is showing which means they have to be re grafted for they are not long for this world. Once this happens the canes get dry rot which will effect the whole bush.

There is a 45 year year old rose nursery where I get my oldest budwood from which makes the best clones. Unfortunatly the above has happened and the bottoms of the roses are just dry rot. Some are better than others but the problem effects ownroot and grafted equally. I can almost cry when I see these extremely valuable plants dying. Fortunatly I have the next lot grafted from these which I will be using to propagate from.
Like a lot of rosearians I believe vigour is lost when using budwood far removed from the original, look at Peace for example.

Vintage Garden Roses in USA is closing mid summer 2013 due to retirement.
They mention the poor economy finding it hard to pay the bills and keep the nursery in condittion for visitors. This will be a great loss for they have the largest old rose nursery in the world. What will happen to the roses, hope the gardeners over there will keep them going.

I know this is about Spider Mites but from white oil to old roses to nurseries closing my thoughts tended to wander. We must preserve these old roses.

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Re: Ugh! Winter Part 2!!

Post by Guest on 14th September 2011, 19:42

Howdy all;

Neptune , with your white oil, normal dilution is at 20ml per/lt. During the cooler months I use it as a carrier for insecticides and fungicides if needed , but once temperatures exceed high 20's I would not use it. The dilution ratio I use is 10ml/lt.

Bruce , talking about old roses, clients of mine have some very old roses around 80yrs + . They needed rejuvenating badly, so over a period of 5 yrs, most of the old wood has been pruned out, and when you see them now they look like strapping 10 year olds. This is something that has to be done very carefully and not rushed as you can kill the plant or make it struggle for years trying to recuperate. With these old nureries closing , people dont realise the loss of some cultivars once the doors close, here in Oz I suppose we have Rustons as a back up.

Spider mites can cause havoc here in Deniliquin during the summer months, here in the new place and where I have the roses out of town I have no problems. I think the practice of pruning post spraying of Lime Sulphur has benefits of a fungus treatment and a mite deterrent. Mind you the smell reminds me of the rotten egg fights I used to have as a kid (stinky)

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