Latest topics
» Thornless Bourbon Climbers?
by rosebud 21st August 2017, 17:12

» Winter Flowers
by rosebud 14th August 2017, 16:46

» pruning dilemma
by silkyfizz 5th August 2017, 19:46

» Hands on Bud Grafting Workshop.
by The Lazy Rosarian 2nd August 2017, 06:10

» rose for sale
by The Lazy Rosarian 31st July 2017, 06:19

» roses in pots
by carmel 30th July 2017, 09:17

» Hi, I am new here :)
by carmel 27th July 2017, 07:09

» Peony rose
by carmel 27th July 2017, 07:04


When do you prune

View previous topic View next topic Go down

When do you prune

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 31st May 2011, 06:47

I know this topic will not have many legs, but, when do you prune and if it is not rude, where are you(roughly). If possible maybe the town ?. The methods, in which order, sprays/ no sprays.
And anything else that comes to mind, David.
avatar
The Lazy Rosarian

Number of posts : 5138
Age : 64
Location : Mudgee, NSW, Australia
Registration date : 2009-01-11

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by sonya on 31st May 2011, 07:32

Juries out at present, Ive done it in the first week of June and cut buds of last year, Im waiting this year until the end of june. I also work via the moon calender so it will be the date closest to the end of the month. I have to have them back up and blooming fully for a wedding in Sept. So my queston is, is it a 7 weeks recovery period or longer when u give them a big hair cut?
avatar
sonya

Number of posts : 73
Age : 45
Location : Far North Coast nsw
Registration date : 2011-04-20

http://www.greenwoodroses.com.au

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by Barbara B on 31st May 2011, 07:37

Hi,
usually I wait until the end of June or early July but I think I'm going to start soon. A lot of the roses are ready for pruning - I'll just prune them as they become ready.
We're on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria.
I don't spray at all - I'd rather have the birds.
I'll feed them when we top up the mulch sometime in late July.
Barbara B

Barbara B

Number of posts : 428
Location : Somerville, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2009-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by Balinbear on 31st May 2011, 12:30

The rose "experts" up our way say to prune heavily in Jan and Feb and a light prune late July.

It's beacuse they reckon that the roses up here don't really have a rest period in winter. I think they are correct becuase the slow time for ours appears to be Dec - Feb. They appear to grow well until laye June slow down a bit in August and burst onto the scene in late September - early October, cop the hot drier winds in Late Oct - Late November and go ok, The humid winds then start and the roses stop doing too much, just the occasional flush.

I know I don't really prune most of ours. The Alister Clark roses we have (the ones left) get a prune but not the teas etc unless really really needed.
avatar
Balinbear

Number of posts : 1446
Age : 62
Location : Sunshine Coast Queensland
Registration date : 2010-01-30

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by The Lazy Rosarian on 2nd June 2011, 06:28

We prune here, Mudgee, when I get to our roses. We have a cross section of roses, not many. I am building up more and more each year. So when i do prune they all get a go at the same time, yes it is wrong according to the "rules". We have been in the house 14 years and there are 2 roses that do not/ have not been pruned in that time. One is Cecile Brunner/ Bloomfield Abundance and the other is one that not many would know named 'Marijke Koopman', a deep pink HT, it was bred by Fryers Roses in the UK.
I am undecided on the spray/no spray thing. As for water, if it is dry thet get some and when planted, plus rain. Fertilizer, sometimes.
This is MK
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Last edited by roseman on 2nd June 2011, 06:33; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding picture)
avatar
The Lazy Rosarian

Number of posts : 5138
Age : 64
Location : Mudgee, NSW, Australia
Registration date : 2009-01-11

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by AutumnDamask on 9th June 2011, 20:31

I was told August - due mainly to the frost - for here in NE Vic. But we had a dryish April-May and quite a few are leafless (I don't think it is ALL due to the BS. I think. Dunno ) But then I have some that are in a bed I worked on last month and they have fresh growth...

Do them as they look like they need it??
avatar
AutumnDamask

Number of posts : 1360
Location : Benalla, Victoria
Registration date : 2011-06-08

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by Admin on 9th June 2011, 21:11

All year... lightly to remove wayward stems or deadwood...

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by neptune on 9th June 2011, 22:40

So you don't agree to give the bushes a major prune each year , so hopefully it will throw up new canes and keep the bush fresh?
avatar
neptune

Number of posts : 2408
Location : Western Australia
Registration date : 2010-06-26

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by Admin on 10th June 2011, 07:59

No I don't.

Roses will do that naturally as that is their habit. The majority of roses will throw basal canes from a crown or from their roots and when they are spent they will begin to redirect resources away from those stems and throw up new basals. The old ones die and are replaced by new ones. You can see this happening in David's beautiful photo of his equally beautiful 'Marijke Koopman'. There are strong structural branches but if you look closely at the left hand side there is a new strong leader shooting up from near the ground (I just hope this is not the understock LOL). If you take your cue from the plant you will see a clear succession of aging in canes going from green and plump to dead and grey and the dead and grey ones can be pruned off. As stems begin to yellow it is a sign that this process is beginning and if you leave it the plant will be able to reclaim what ever resources it invested in its growth in a waste-not-want-not fashion.

To prune them back very hard each year locks you into a cycle of intervention (of feeding, fertilising, and spraying) and when you think about it logically, the last thing it does is keep the plant fresh or does the plant any real good. Plants are a little like icebergs... what you see above the ground is only a fraction of what is actually below the ground. An old bonsai-growing friend use to tell me when you prune the shoots you should also prune the roots because the two parts develop in unison to meet the needs of the whole. Whenever you chop the rose down hard you upset this balance and the rose must work overtime to get back on an even keel. We see this as a nice green fresh flush of growth. Really, it is for our own benefit that we prune hard, not the plants.

When we chop them back we are actually tipping the scales in favour of disease beacuse the growth is more compact, soft, and fresh which is less able to resist fungal infections. It is very interesting to watch roses grow when the intervention is restricted to just removing dead wood and those branches that are in our way. A rose will build up a network of branches to best suit the light conditions around it. It will build a series of strong structural branches that lift the growth up off the ground and will form a shell of leaves and flowers on the outside with few or no leaves on the inside. New branches grow to fill in the holes from where old ones die back or from where they have been injured or pruned back. My 'The Children's Rose' is a classic example of how it ends up. The bush is about 4ft tall, pushing 5ft maybe, and it has a candelabra shape to it. It still gets its fresh flush each year but it is made up higher and more spread out. This is why roses have a reputation for having bare legs and why underplanting is essential or making them a part of a mixed bed works so well (and more naturally).

There are other reasons too. It comes back to the old grafted verses own-root debate. Grafting a rose means that when you prune it hard each year it has to make new basals from the graft and there are only a limited number of dormant buds in this region from which new basals can form. You actually reduce the life span of your grafted rose if you prune it back hard, forcing those dormant buds into life. Leaving a grafted rose more-or-less unpruned actually allows it to live out its life more fully. When those dormant buds are exhausted it will compensate for this by making them from below the graft. Own-root roses don't have this same issue as they can form a pretty much unlimited number of new basals from their roots or any other place to replace old and worn branches.

It also depends on what type of rose you are talking about. A lot of my roses never get pruned because of what they are. The Gallica, Damask, Teas, China, species, etc, roses don't get touched except to remove dead wood or branches in the way. Roses like 'Tuscany', 'Tuscany Superb', 'Charles de Mills', and 'Leda' take care of the prunning part themselves and naturally form thickets that keep replenishing themselves. It might be useful to preface this thread as referring to HT because this is what most people think of when they think of roses and then their thinking is bound by years of traditional thinking of growing them alone, hacking them back, liming the ground, fertilsiing and spraying to keep them looking good when in actual fact roses can pretty much look after themselves and those that can't... well maybe we shouldn't be growing them... just saying Innocent If you were to prune Teas in the same way as you do HT there's a good chance you will cause their demise.

The goal is to breed roses that will do this themselves and still look good. Look at this rose, bred by the late (and great) Ralph Moore: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This rose has never been pruned and has that shape naturally. You can clearly picture that leafy shell I mentioned earlier and it certainly looks fresh to me Smile

There are still roses that I hack back. Ground cover roses and ramblers still get the treatment but usually because they are so rampant that I need to do it to keep them where I want them... again it is for my own benefit, not the roses.

Most of this thinking is based on this article: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and years and years of experience in just watching the way things grow. Over the years I've become more and more hands off... and critical of the roses we grow and the way we grow them... but each to his/her own. If people want to prune hard, for whatever reason, then who am I to judge Smile

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by Barbara B on 10th June 2011, 09:39

Hi Simon,
I have just read the article at vintagegardens.com about the pruning. It's a bit of an eye-opener, isn't it? I would appreciate informed comment from others about this. Do you alter your pruning method, or just not prune at all? Do you just shape the plants? I think some would grow into monsters if they weren't pruned. Do they, or are they self-limiting in height?
Barbara B

Barbara B

Number of posts : 428
Location : Somerville, Victoria, Australia
Registration date : 2009-05-14

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by AutumnDamask on 10th June 2011, 09:49

Thanks for this info Simon. I've wondered for a while about the "Must Prune Or Else" mentality given that so many left-to-go-wild roses can be so marvelous. (Probably not the HT so much ...)
Mine have certainly been neglected the last year Embarassed due to a few reasons and whilst they could have performed much better they still soldier on and bloom.
Very similar principle to pastures I suspect - too much "pruning" and the plant takes longer to get back to a useable sward.

And, suitably inspired, I think I will head outside to start on the deadwood (the rose equivilent to a "beauty treatment" of exfoliation and manicure vs a tv makeover?? Wink )
avatar
AutumnDamask

Number of posts : 1360
Location : Benalla, Victoria
Registration date : 2011-06-08

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by neptune on 10th June 2011, 09:51

I'm reading it at the moment as well....does it make a difference if you are looking for show quality roses as compared to the normal. Is it suffice to say that you only need to take out the deadwood and spinley bit and the odd one or two to open the centres for circulation....or....when it is major prune time ....you don't prune except for removing deadwood......do you remove leaves like in a prune or just leave it?
avatar
neptune

Number of posts : 2408
Location : Western Australia
Registration date : 2010-06-26

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by Admin on 10th June 2011, 13:22

I take out the dead wood whenever I notice it. I go back in spring to get rid of any tips that get frost damage. If there's a branch where I don't want it, like across a path I get rid of it whenever I notice it. If it's getting too big I will give it a haircut but never severe.

I can't comment on the show quality flowers as I've never exhibited though I've never had anything too harsh to say about the shape and form of the blooms. 'Kardinal' keeps producing wonderful flowers and I haven't pruned it in 4 years.

Some do get big but that's why Gregg Lowrey says one gets to know their roses very well by watching them and talking to others about them. My 'The Children's Rose' has topped out at the height I mentioned above. It's about 4 years old now. 'Altissimo' is now about 15ft tall and only gets a minor trim. 'Peirre de Ronsard' has reached the roofline but I keep it topped each winter and of all my roses it probably gets the most severe pruning each winter but this is because this variety tends to get split canes for me so I prune the splits off. I use to prune 'Climbing Iceberg' back hard until I shovel pruned it too.

If you want to see what I am talking about very clearly, and you have 'Iceberg' don't dead head it straight away. Wait until the flowers brown and shrivel and you will see the buds below each spent flower start to shoot. I trim it back to just above that shoot each time and treated like that 'Iceberg' will form a tall rose that tends to spread. Mine is about 5ft tall now at 4 years old. I also don't fertilise my roses at all with anything except mulch, ever. You tend to get more open bushes because of it but then interplanted with other things it doesn't matter.


Last edited by Simon on 17th July 2011, 22:19; edited 2 times in total

Admin

Number of posts : 3739
Location : Mudgee
Registration date : 2008-02-08

http://www.rosetalkaustralia.com

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by rosemeadow on 14th June 2011, 23:29

How fantastic to see you here Simon and read how imformative your posting is.
Jenny from Canowiondra told me some years ago that she didn't prune
roses ( other than to recut the pathways ) because it ruined the natural grace of a rose bush. Her garden was lots of Heritage and David Austins.
So I have followed the same suit, only prunning my hot house roses and cutting out dead wood in the outside roses.
Recently I mowed up the side of the Ramblers as they were running along the grass. A few weeks ago I cleaned up one of my more advanced beds with Climbers which were over hanging over some smaller varieties of David Austins. So I did some cutting out of the climbers canes to give light to the small David Austin bushes, and some more tying up to the poles. Now I will be able to plant some other types of flowers with the Iries already there too. And I dug out a bit of a gallica to give back to its Gallica neighbour a bit more room. Might have to do more let, Village Maid is such a pretty rose that I don't want it swamped by its neighbour. I planted the rooted bit up beside the dog runs.
I have another section I need doing so I can walk or mow between two rows of roses. This is the only type of prunning I will do, I can't see the sense in cutting off what then has to grow again. Too much work, for me and the rose. I don't reckon I will even prune the hot house roses now, after what you said, Simon.
It is really good to know therefore I won't need to feed, etc. because I have never done this in this garden (actually I have only ever used Seasol and Charlie Carp a few times in a earlier rose garden) I am not even going to put Lucerne around them this time as I don't want to bring in any weeds. I am just lying the grass I am cutting and ripping away from around them, back around them as a mulch. I might go back to getting Lucerne dust from the stock produce mill.

rosemeadow

Number of posts : 902
Age : 53
Location : Exeter, Tasmania
Registration date : 2009-01-11

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by rosemeadow on 14th June 2011, 23:35

P.S. I can't see David's photo or the article. Maybe another time, anyway that is why I haven't commented about them.

rosemeadow

Number of posts : 902
Age : 53
Location : Exeter, Tasmania
Registration date : 2009-01-11

Back to top Go down

Re: When do you prune

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum