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G'day

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G'day

Post by IanM on 14th November 2010, 12:52

G'day one and all,

I am interested in old fashioned and species roses, particularly China roses and early teas. Hoping to meet up with people who may share this interest. I live on the Darling Downs in Qld.

Regards
Ian
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Re: G'day

Post by Admin on 14th November 2010, 13:43

G'Day Ian,

Are you the same Ian Menkin that is also into Cacti and Succulents? Nice to see another China fan. I just love them. What do you think (so far) of one of my new seedlings?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It's not fully open yet but will be a fairly large single pink. It's from seed sent here by Viru Viraraghavan in India from his plant of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I'm looking forward to seeing how this one, and one other that is completely red, turn out. The petal substance on this seedling is very nice. It's thick and strong and should last a very long time on the plant which is more than can be said for a lot of singles. No scent though unfortunately. It has very nice dark healthy leaves so far and it should be an important breeder for me in the future. I'm hoping to have some plants of '10000 Lights' soon too so I'll put your name down for one when they are ready. I think I have at least one that's taken from Margaret's cuttings. If you come across chinesis 'minima' (aka 'Rouletii') or 'Si' in your travels please let me know. I've been chasing them for ages Smile Welcome aboard. I hope you enjoy your time here Smile

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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 14th November 2010, 14:04

Hi Simon,

One and the same. I never realized I was so (in)famous! Smile There was a bloke called Simon who kindly sent me some cactus cuttings from Tasmania about 12 months ago, but I managed to lose his address. So I could not repay the favour and have felt bad about it ever since.

Wow, that is an exceptionally beautiful China rose. I would love one please!

You know, I had Rouletii ('minima') about 6 years ago when I was living in Toowoomba. It was a rented place and I unfortunately left it behind when I moved. I doubt if it is still there. I had many many species roses planted there, but later tenants did not value them and drove over them, mowed them off etc. etc. Friends have told me never to go back, although I have been tempted to go knock on the door one day to ask if I can look around. There may be a few survivors. I am racking my brains trying to think who I purchased the Rouletii from. I think it was either a Vic. or SA nurseryman who had it. I wonder if it is in the Heritage Gardens in SA?

Thanks for replying and I hope to correspond more with you on China roses.

Ian
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Re: G'day

Post by Admin on 14th November 2010, 14:17

Apparently Thomas for Roses has it.. I just had exceeded my rose-buying budget for the year Rolling Eyes

What were the cactus cuttings? I send seed and cuttings all over the place but don't recall sending anything to QLD as recently as 12 months ago... maybe it was me Dunno I'm mainly into Mamms and Rebutia-like (ie Rebutia, Sulcorebutia, Aylostera, and the old Lobivia etc) and growing them from seed... I read your article on Australian subterranean succulents some time ago on the QLD Cactus and Succulent website.

How much room do you have to plant roses now? I have a rose species that might do well for you up there from india called Rosa clinophylla. It is a house eater though and in the heat would take off.

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Re: G'day

Post by The Estate on 14th November 2010, 17:01

G'Day from me to 'Merry'
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Re: G'day

Post by Balinbear on 14th November 2010, 21:03

Yahoo another Qld Tea rose grower.

You are most welcome!
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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 14th November 2010, 22:23

Thank you all for the welcomes. I like the smiley icons on this forum! What roses are you growing Balinbear?

Must have been a different Simon who sent me the cactus cuttings. The ones I received were of a spineless cactus called "Caress". At the time I had a crazy idea to use it as grafting stock.

I might pass on the R. clinophylla thanks. About 6 years ago I would have jumped at this... in fact I remember emailing a fellow in Bangladesh offering him money to collect seed off this rose, but I never heard back from him. I am a bit stuck for room now and have decided to concentrate on China roses and a few early teas. But it is good to know that this rose has made it to Australia.

I have been chasing "Hume's Blush" for what must be a decade, but have had no luck so far. I notice that MistyDowns had this one on their catalogue. I will have to put in an order with them next season. Tried in the past, but they were always "sold out" before I got my order in. I am sure a lot of nurseries must have this rose, but are reluctant to sell it because the identity is in so much doubt. But I would like to bring together all of the clones that are called "Hume's Blush" in Australia. Apparently there are 2 clones in the gardens at Old Parliament House in Canberra. Another clone exists in the Adelaide Botanical Gardens.

Simon, thank you for the tip re Chinensis 'Minima'. I checked my list of the species and primary hybrid roses growing at Adelaide Botanical Gardens and Mt. Lofty BG. They list Chinensis 'Minima' as Accession G20010895 in ABG Bed 32.7

I seem to recall the one I had years ago was similar to Old Blush/Parson's Pink, but was a much darker pink, almost red.



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Re: G'day

Post by Admin on 14th November 2010, 22:58

I have cuttings in of 'Parson's Pink' now, but 'Rouletii' is pretty much a miniature... thought to be the one from which all minis are descended... probably a bit of a fanciful/romatic POV IMO. I am chasing it because I want to reintroduce old blood into new... gotta toughen up modern roses and minis need it as much as the rest of them.

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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 14th November 2010, 23:07

Yes I think mine was a lot smaller than Parson's Pink. I have a white double polyantha that is as tough as old boots if this is of any use to you for breeding? It came from my grandmother's garden many years ago. Survives on hardly any water and never suffers from black spot or powdery mildew, even when growing in the shade. It is a prickly little so-and-so though... I've never been able to identify it.
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Re: G'day

Post by Admin on 14th November 2010, 23:12

Put some photos in the mini rose ID section at the bottom of the first page.. someone might recognise it. I have two small double white polys, one which is 'popcorn' and the other is an unknown. The unknown is smaller, tougher than 'Popcorn'. Haven't tried breeding with them yet... too many other projects at present.

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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 14th November 2010, 23:47

Thanks. Closest I've been able to get to an ID is "Little white Pet".
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Re: G'day

Post by Balinbear on 15th November 2010, 21:25

Ian
We grow mostly tea, china, noisette, hybrd musk and Alister Clark roses.

Apart from a couple of AC varieties we find that these are pretty resiliant in our climate.

We have a gallery of some of our roses on

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 15th November 2010, 23:10

Thanks Balinbear, You have some lovely roses there. Now the big question on my mind is "Can I place an order with you for some cuttings?" Laughing

I notice you have a Hume's Blush contender too!! Where did you come by this one?

I see you've been having fun and games with Park's Yellow as well. When I lived in Toowoomba I purchased several very distinct "Parks Yellows" but was never confident that any of them were the real PY.

You have some lovely teas and chinas in your photos that are really making me drool! Eye Popper
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Re: G'day

Post by Admin on 15th November 2010, 23:24

It is generally accepted that none of the PY plants are in fact PY. See [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 16th November 2010, 13:13

I've seen photos of a rose growing in the United States that looks identical to the Redoute illustration of PY. Either it is that rose or a reliable "remake". But all of the ones I've seen and grown in Australia have been suspect. One I grew by that name turned out to be a relatively modern climbing HT.
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Re: G'day

Post by Balinbear on 17th November 2010, 14:54

Ian

Yeah Queensland is the place for Teas.

The "PY Not" is definately not 'PY'. We have the one that is a once flowering climber (its about 8 metres up the tree). Looks great in September/October.

The Humes Blush we had (it has since died) for many years. I am not sure where we got it (or exactly when) and I doubt it is the real one. My brother in law did some cuttings of it not long before it died and we have a small one whcih he gave me a few months ago growing in the garden but is a bit small for cuttings as yet.

Let me know what cuttings you would like and I can send them up to you.
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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 17th November 2010, 21:50

Actually I think the PY that looked like the real thing was photgraphed in Italy. I will have to find the site again.

I am getting some seed shortly of the Laos form of "Hume's Blush". This is the one that was discovered by some Japanese researchers who believe it is identical to Hume's Blush. Judging by photos I've seen I would tend to agree. If not, well it is a very good replica.

Thank you Balinbear, I will send you a PM with my want list of cuttings. I'm not sure what I have that might interest you in return. I have some species roses and the creamy-coloured tea rose that I found could be of interest once I get the cuttings to strike. I also have Serratipetala, Mutabilis, and Perle D'or, if any of those are of interest. Failing that I have about a dozen species roses, most withe provenace details.
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Re: G'day

Post by Admin on 17th November 2010, 22:02

In my experience even with seed from ancient/very old sources, you will get a load of variation and it won't breed true. The best you will be able to say is that it is from "Hume's Blush" and give it its own identity. I have found this with the selfed "10,000 Camelias Red China Rose' seedlings. I have so far had single whites, single pinks, semi-double pinks and double reds. Real mixed bag from a plant that hasn't been outcrossed to anything in over 500 years.

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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 17th November 2010, 22:21

Hi Simon, Yes that's right. But I think the results might be interesting and there's always the chance that one could breed true or come close.

Wow, I'm interested in any single flowered Chinas! If ever you have spare cuttings from your "10,000 Camelias Red China Rose" offspring please let me know.

By the way, have you ever grown a so-called "China" rose called "Angel's Wings". It is a miniature being sold as seed all over the world at present. It germinates readily. Some sellers label the species name Rosa chinensis, others as R. odorata. The plant looks to have quite a bit of multiflora and polyantha in its breeding to my eyes. I got some seed recently to try. Apparently results can be a real mixed bag, with a whole range of colours, and singles through to doubles; also some offspring grow into large bushes, others remain mini.
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Re: G'day

Post by Admin on 17th November 2010, 22:30

Yep... lots of them... I think maybe they might have chinensis minima in them somewhere but the influence is minimal. The main influence seems to be multiflora.. possibly multiflora nana. I've only ever got singles (pink-white) from them and they are not very cold hardy. I had a batch of 30 recently and lost 28 of them to a late frost. One of the remaining two is on shakey ground. Remaining one seems ok. Miniature. Mr Moore is reputed to have used similar seeds to develop some of his minis ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is meant to be one from such a batch of seeds and is meant to be an awesome rose) and David Zlesak used them in his chromosome doubling experiments to convert them from diploid to tetraploid and then used the resulting tetraploids in breeding with polys to make his [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I'm going to keep these two on and use them in breeding sometime down the track. I can recommend getting them because you just never know what you will get.

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Re: G'day

Post by MsMW on 25th November 2010, 20:18

Simon that Camella China is stunnin and what I love are that there are only 5 petals..oh delicate!
is this one you and mother nature created yourselves?

Ms MW

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Re: G'day

Post by MsMW on 25th November 2010, 20:22

You lot are amazing with your knowledge of growing, n cuttings.....it's like another world away for me to read
Smile

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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 26th November 2010, 12:44

Hi Ms MW, Yes that China rose is a little beauty!
Cuttings are not that difficult. I can post up my method on the forum if you are interested? I'm not saying my method is the best method or the correct method - all I know is what works for me.
I had a go at grafting this morning. All of my past attempts were dismal failures, but I now have all the right tools. So fingers crossed! Smile
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Re: G'day

Post by MsMW on 26th November 2010, 20:34

Hi Ian - I'm stunned that 'cuttings' are 'easy'
Would be lovely having a step by step helping hand Ian.
My gosh I'm giddy with excitement that I could possibly grow more 'Awakening'
Smile Smile Smile

I'm having a great time here on RTA Smile
Thanks everyone!

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Re: G'day

Post by IanM on 29th November 2010, 23:16

I'll post up my cutting method in the propagation part of the forum.

Ian
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Re: G'day

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