Hall of Fame Roses

You seem to be fasinated with Ebb Tide, there is a full page pix on Swanes new catalogue. If you can't get one sent let me know and I will send you a copy.

Yeah.. not so much the plant but the colour I really like the deep dark purples and have been collecting a few in this colour range (I find it hard to place it in the garden though.... had most luck near white... don't much like it near pink and looks terrible near reds... not bad near yellows and oranges...). The guys in the U.S. are raving about this rose called 'Midnight Blue' because it is a lovely deep purple, is a good seed parent and pollen parent, and it seems to pass on that rich dark purple colour with some reliability. It was also bred by Carruth and its breeding is identical to that of 'Ebb Tide'. I would not be surprised if they both came out of the same pollination. So... I'm in love with its picture because I love the colour... This is why I am so interested in Burgundy Iceberg... not a big fan of the plant but I really love the colour. I'd really love a nice shrubby evergreen though as nails tea-like plant with this colour... don't think it is a very realistic goal though.. everyone I have spoken to so far has said there is something about Tea genetics that seems to wash the colour out. That's part of their appeal for me... but I do love this strong dark colour. There are strongly coloured Teas though so I guess it might just be a matter of trying it with different ones and seeing how it goes...

So far I've got Violette (as a cutting), Veilchenblau, Rhapsody in Blue, Baby Faraux, Tuscany Superb (as a cutting), Sweet Chariot (on it's way as a cutting), and Wild Rover... and there are a few other old once bloomers that I'd like to try and chase down later too to add to the range. Wild Rover looks like it could be a doer... It's got lovely dark purple flowers with a hint of yellow in the centre and the bush is meant to turn into a large shrub (mine is only young so far) but every one of its flowers set OP hips so maybe it will be useful in the future too. I'd like to wait and see how it does in the garden over a few years first... to see it's mature form. I nearly bought Ebb Tide last year from Swanes but they wanted something ridiculous like $40-$41 to send a single plant down here so I decided against it.

Holy WOW!!! All this talk about Ebb Tide made me go back to the Swanes website and run through a 'mock purchase' again to see what their shipping was like this year... $65!!!! for ONE rose ... to TAS... Think I'll make do with the ones I've got instead

thanks Deb... That is a beautiful rose and I will look around for it. I have Monsieur Tillier that I was thinking of too as it seems to be a good breeder and also has excellent colour. If the Rosette Delizy and Hugo Roller cuttings I have take then they are candidates too as they also have nice colour and a yellow/purple blend would be interesting. I don't know if there is anything in this.. but it seems that there is more than one type of purple in roses too... one that starts of red and then changes to purple in the heat and as the flower ages and then there is purple that starts out purple and gets more purple as it ages... that's the kind of purple I like... Black Jade is a mini that starts out almost black (see my photos of it on HMF) and it would be nice to try and get this blackness into the purple... a bit like Tuscany. Cardinal de Richelieu (the Gallica) is another I'd like to put in and maybe Wlliam Lobb to get some mossing. I think the shape and habit and disease resistance of the shrub will be the most important. I'm tired of flowers on sticks

Bruce have you been surprised by the resistance of any of the HT/English group since you stopped spraying. Like you I haven't sprayed this year and a few have stepped forward as being quite good. The best ones are Altissimo, Kardinal, Pierre de Ronsard, Heritage, and Maurice Utrillo. The others range from terrible to ok. Altissimo also sets loads of hips.

Wow... RD doesn't form seeds in the hips??? That's different Might have to try it as a pollen parent instead with a reliable seed parent. hmmm

I haven't decided to breed Teas... I have decided to try and breed with Teas.. there's a difference. I think someone who has the book and knows more about them and who has been growing them for longer should take up the challenge of breeding Teas because they have a better idea of what a Tea really is... I'm after Shrub roses in the true sense of the word shrub... i.e. shrubby.

yep - you need pollen but not a lot... a little pollen goes a long way. I was complaining to someone I have met through RHA that I have lots of little native bees here (shouldn't really complain... it's great to see so many of them) that seem to delight in following me around as I pollinate so they can scrape pollen from the flowers and take off with it. One flower I did I loaded with pollen so it was quite thick on the flower then went to get a tag to ID the cross, came back 20min later and there wasn't a scrap of pollen left on the emasculated flower. There were tiny native bees crawling all over it loaded up with pollen on their back legs. I loaded it up again and covered it with a paper bag. I now put small draw-string bags made of organsa over the pollinated flowers to keep them away. This person said to me that it only takes a few grains of pollen to achieve a successful pollination so why not spread it more thinly so they can't see it so easily because they were probably honing in on the big bright yellow spot on the flowers. It was one of those slap myself on the forehead moments because I knew that but didn't think of it. I think I still put too much pollen on, because I apply it with my fingers and it's hard to judge how much pollen you are using, but have cut it right back so that even very stingy pollen producers can be used now. Green Ice was TERRIBLE and produces maybe 2 or 3 anthers per flower. I just harvested about 50 flowers and spent ages pulling anthers out of all the petals and got a useable amount of pollen for one or two pollinations (that didn't take anyway but was worth a shot). Another trick I tried was to take those few anthers and sit them on the stigmas inside the little drawstring bag so that the pollen burst onto the stigmas. It worked great for 'Scabrosa' x 'Black Jade'... from which I now have about 50 seeds to play with from both methods (bit different though because BJ produces loads of pollen).

Those ones ones that have few anthers.. do they have lots of those little curled mini petals (there is a name for them that I can't remember...) around the middle and are very double flowers with LOTS of petals? It didn't click with me for a long time what someone on RHA was talking about when they said that with any luck the flowers on my little 'Kindred Ice' seedling weren't too double so I might get a little fertility from it. Then I read that those small petals around the anthers in the centre of a flower in very double flowers are actually modified anthers and this accounts for their low pollen count. You can even see it on some when you pull the petals off.. you can see some parts of the petal that actually seems to be making pollen... never been able to get it off and use it though...

Setting no hips isn't too uncommon.. you sometimes here about breeders selecting for self-cleaning roses... those never form hips because they all drop... and some are just plain infertile. Never seen a swollen and seemingly fully developed hip with no seeds though... that's quite special really... you get a nice display without the taxing job of making and maturing seeds. Pretty cool actually

I think I'll wait till next season thanks Karen... I think I'm going to have my hands full soon and not sure about budding at this time of the year down here. I've been flat out the last two weeks and haven't had a chance to get those plants in the mail. Will try and get onto it tomorrow